Configuring Taxes for Canadian Sites/Zones

uhh... yeah, but it does that if you set it up the recommended way too.

True. I just didn't think it was efficient to do the extra work of setting up the extra tax rates, zone definitions and tax class.

Well... since "efficient" came up... it would have been a lot more efficient use of time to just set it up that way rather than question it :) And while it is true I can't think of a good reason why it had to be that way, it is proven effective and non-detrimental. To each his own, but if I were setting up a store right now I think I'd go with the full tutorial recommendations.

Isn't that the point of this forum? To help others, as well as ourselves, to better understand and to constantly strive to improve methods and procedures for Zen Cart??

As Albert Einstein said "Any man who reads too much and uses his brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking."

Over and out.

Yes yes of course :) I just found the "efficient" statement a bit ironic.

[QUOTE=DrByte;198824]You might find this helpful ... it needs a bit of touching-up, but the basic core is there:

(...)

• Tax Class Title: GST Shipping Class

• Zone: Canada GST Zone

• Tax Rate (%): 5.0000

• Description: 5.0% GST on shipping

• Priority: 1

• Tax Class Title: GST Shipping Class

• Zone: Ontario PST Zone

• Tax Rate (%): 8.0000

• Description: 8.0% PST (shipping)

• Priority: 1

etc.

Except this doesn't work for Quebec. Quebec PST is 7.5% (not 8%) on top of GST.

The final rate is 12,875% (not 13%). Every time I tried, Zen Cart rounded that DOWN to 12% :oops: That is not acceptable, not any more than rounding it up to 13%.

Plus, it is quite a bugger not to be able to show both taxes separately on invoices. It raises tons of questions i can well do without.

Thanks

Marie-Andree

It doesn't round at all. Do an actual transaction and report the details (and use a relatively large subtotal amount).

I does so round. If I input the actual tax rate for PST on top of GST, that is 12,875%, zencart rounds it DOWN to 12%. If I input 12,88%, same difference. It's only if I iput 12,9% that it behaves ok and takes it.

The problem is, I don't want to have to reconfigure my accounting software just for the sake of zencart....

So if you have a $1000 item, you're saying it shows the tax as $120.00 instead of $128.75? (don't guess... try it). If so, you're doing something wrong with the setup I think.

Wait a minute... are you INPUTTING a rate of 12.875% (or 12.88 or 12.9)? That's not how you're supposed to do it if that's the case. You're supposed to put the two taxes in separately and let it do the calculation.

• Steven

Coming in late on this and I am somewhat new to Zen Cart but I noticed in the "My Store" menu, there is a field for "Tax Decimal Places". I have mine set to zero because, as I understand it, "Pad the tax value this amount of decimal places" would suggest rounding. Therefore, if I set it to 1, it would round up. Is this correct or have I been using Excel too long? :wacko:

If I am correct, this may be MarieAndree's problem. I will test it once I finish setting up my site.

Matthew

Hmmm.... that's a good question/point. I don't recall doing anything with that (or even seeing it) so I would suggest that you leave it at whatever the default is as it was probably implemented for a specific situation that likely doesn't apply to most people's situations. I'm not sure what the default is... but "2" would make the most sense to me.

You know, I think it is for currencies that use more than 2 decimal places. If it does have to do with rounding then I think you have it backwards... 0 or 1 would force it to round unnecessarily whereas 2 would be correct and more would be that much more accurate (but likely unnecessary).

• Steven

Again, I am more used to Excel's "ROUNDUP" and "ROUNDDOWN", whereby the number refers to the number of decimal places it rounds to. Therefore, if you were to put 3 in this field, I am wondering if that will solve the problem.

On the other hand, 5% and 7.5% equals 12.5%. If the tax is supposed to be 12.875%, that means that it is COMPOUNDED as Net Price x 1.05 (GST) and THEN the product of that is multiplied by 1.075 (PST). This suggests different prioritizations, no? In MarieAndree's example, she has both priorities set to 1. The Admin panel states, "Tax rates at the same priority are added, others are compounded." Therefore, she needs to have GST set to Priority 1 and PST to Priority 2, no?

Sorry if I am off base, but new to this and trying to learn as I fix my own site and hopefully help others in the process.

Matthew

matthewr:

Again, I am more used to Excel's "ROUNDUP" and "ROUNDDOWN", whereby the number refers to the number of decimal places it rounds to. Therefore, if you were to put 3 in this field, I am wondering if that will solve the problem.

On the other hand, 5% and 7.5% equals 12.5%. If the tax is supposed to be 12.875%, that means that it is COMPOUNDED as Net Price x 1.05 (GST) and THEN the product of that is multiplied by 1.075 (PST). This suggests different prioritizations, no? In MarieAndree's example, she has both priorities set to 1. The Admin panel states, "Tax rates at the same priority are added, others are compounded." Therefore, she needs to have GST set to Priority 1 and PST to Priority 2, no?

Sorry if I am off base, but new to this and trying to learn as I fix my own site and hopefully help others in the process.

Matthew
You would only compound GST and PST if you are in Quebec/Maritimes ... but, wouldn't you just use HST instead then?
The rest of Canada NEVER compounds GST and PST.

And, the tax-padding value is used only for padding the displayed tax output to the specified number of spaces, by adding zeroes as needed to make up the number of decimal places entered. It has nothing to do with precision of calculations. It is for display only, after all calculations are done.

DrByte,

Thanks for the response and for confirming my suggestion. Quoting MarieAndree:

"Except this doesn't work for Quebec. Quebec PST is 7.5% (not 8%) on top of GST. The final rate is 12,875% (not 13%). Every time I tried, Zen Cart rounded that DOWN to 12% That is not acceptable, not any more than rounding it up to 13%."

So this was all about Quebec specifically. In Quebec, HST is not used. It is separate GST and PST items. Therefore, you could set up a separate Tax Zone for Quebec with a Tax Rate of 12.875% but this number comes from a compounded PST and GST so, since the program can handle compound taxes, why not?

Thanks for clarifying the tax padding thing. I guess it works differently than Excel. :cool:

Matthew

regarding GST

I just spoke with Revenue Canada agency concerning taxes and my specific question was what tax to charge Canadians if the shipment comes to Canada from abroad like USA.

Agent told me that I don't charge them Federal tax.

and when I asked what about provincial taxes she said I'd have to contact provincial tax dept. to find out..

so no GST for merchandise coming to Canada from US.

Yeah, no kidding. If you are an american (and that is the only way that statement made sense) then of course you do not charge a Canadian any tax at all.

Tax collection 101: You collect tax on BEHALF of the country and/or province that BOTH you and your customer reside in. So if you are in Canada you collect Canada (federal) tax from ALL Canadians. In addition, if you are in a certain province you collect that tax from all people living in that province. The exception (and it isn't really an exception technically) is that ALL Canadian businesses regardless of province must collect HST from the customers of provinces that it applies to.

But if you are NOT in Canada then you do not collect ANY tax from ANY Canadian EVER. That happens at the border when the goods come in and it is between the customer and their government.

• Steven

Unless you're meaning this: you are a Canadian and you are selling goods to Canadians, but you don't actually have those goods and instead they are being drop-shipped from America? If that's what you meant, then the agent you spoke with didn't understand. Because in that instance you DO collect taxes the same as if you shipped it from your location. It doesn't matter where the goods actually arrive from... it is where the customer bought it from (you) and where they live.

• Steven

Well yes I am canadian and I asked the question about taxes on merchandise originating from USA bought by canadians and shipped from USA to Canada.

I made it clear to her many times verifying answer from many angles. and also made it clear that I was talking about drop shipping.

she said that I should not charge federal tax on those goods.

Infact i dont reside in canada atm but in Germany.

Also regarding paying GST as a business I was told by the same rep. that I dont have to declare GST unless I make more then 30k annual sales.

im trying to setup taxes now and slowly getting lost..

my dropshipper will always send products from USA to USA and Canada.

I setup taxes according to the guide on first page.

As I understand Zencart will calculate taxes based on store location and delivery address. I guess I can enter dropshipper Zip code for shipping charge calculatings sake.(?)

when I add new product which Tax Class I shold select ?

GSt on shipping, GST/HST/PST or there's one default came with zencart Taxable Goods.

Also do I charge any taxes to americans?
Sorry if the question is ubernoobish.

Simple. If you are in Germany YOU DO NOT COLLECT ANY TAXES FROM CANADIANS!!! Or Americans. No tax at all, period.

And that $30K rule is as follows: You can CHOOSE not to collect or remit any GST if you ANTICIPATE your sales to be under $30,000 per year. If you DO collect ANY GST at any point in the past you MUST register, collect, and remit all appropriate taxes. If your sales end up being > the limit you have to REMIT taxes for ALL sales, even the ones you didn't collect on, which would SUCK. But if you know you are under then don't register, don't collect, and don't remit.

Again though... if you're in Germany you don't have any right or responsibility to collect taxes anyway so just leave it alone.

Also again, you/she are wrong. If you are in Canada and your drop shipper is in the US you DO collect taxes on the goods. It is a moot point because you're in Germany, but if the business is in Canada and the customer is in Canada than tax is collected REGARDLESS of where the goods come from physically. I know this for a fact and if you think she said otherwise then she didn't understand. But since you're not even in Canada, no wonder she was confused.

• Steven