Things every New Zenner needs to know

I know it ... no clue how many times I started to write one of these and then got side tracked and then took the code to far on the update/upgrade to even make it worth trying to finish let alone fix ...

One of these days we will have one written ...

Until then all you get are the /docs ... the FAQs ... the WIKI ... the 1000s of questions and answers here on the forum ... the wonderful bunch of folks that take the time to answer all of these questions that are but a search away ... :cool:

Many shy away from the search ... or give up on the first half dozen to a dozen posts they look through ...

I kinda of have to laugh ... what's the worse that happens in searching and finding something unrealated? You might learn something that will help you an hour later? :P

Besides ... when is the last time an index in a manual actually took you to the right page the first time? And didn't you learn "something" neat for having at least read the first paragraph or two of the page unrealated to what you are looking for? :smile:

Nothing like a good search in the forum for 15 to 30 minutes to learn all kinds of neat things you never knew existed in Zen Cart ... and often times ... you will find the answer to your question at the same time ... :thumbsup:

Woody,

They aleady have. The questions are posted in the forums ;-)and I spent several hours counting the questions that appeared most often.

Many of the draft questions you PM'd me are quite broad. Books have been written on some the topic ;-) I recommend narrowing the scope.Other than CSS, what seems broad to you? Regarding CSS, I am nearly at a loss for how to help some new users. CSS is much more complex than manyh new users realize.

And why not post the list of questions to this thread than PM?Willing to do that. You should know by now that some users don't know how to ask the right questions and they don't know the right answer when they see it. I thought it would be better to discuss the list with other users that are helping **answer **questions. Will post the questions I shared via PM below. Not trying to hide anything.

Recommend searching the forums on Ajeh, Kim, DrByte, and Wilt (Zen Cart Devs who regularly post to the forums) and other community folks who have been around for awhile (Merlin, etc). You will find clear answers to many questions (or subset of your questions).These are folks I respect tremendously for their work on Zen Cart. I gathered a series of topics and FAQ's and posted it to give guidance to new users. I refer somone to that post nearly every day. I also hear new users saying they don't understand the FAQ and/or posts. IMO, this happens because

1. Zen Cart, CSS, php , e-commerce, etc. is more difficult than most new users reaslize
2. Too many new post questions before they have not even tried looking for an answer
3. The combination of a new release and the forum reboot after the sql attack and
4. New users have less and less prior knowledge of basic programming skills and don't understand the FAQ's as written.

Then if answers need fleshed out and/or questions remain then do ask around ;-)Thought that is what I was doing.

Certainly open to guidance from the Devs and other forum leaders on this. If it a waste of anyone's time, detracts from the community, goes in the wrong direction or has a better way to be done, please let me know.

Here is the list questions I have considered so far. It is first draft list and will likely change substantially before it is published.

Feel free to comment.

1. Glossary of common Zen Cart and programming terms.
2. List of useful tools and software.
3. What is the Override template system?

What if we started with a clean install of the cart and then just did a step-by-step look at the edits a new zenner would typically make in setting up their cart? The following questions might all be answered in that approach.

4. How to remove the "sales message goes here" text.
5. How to change or turn off "Welcome Guest" message.
6. How to add and position a new logo
7. How to find and edit php files in the template. Layout, sideboxes, etc.
8. What directories all the images are in. IE: buttons, icons, images etc.

Also -

9. CSS - With the advent of 1.3 there are many CSS questions.
10. How to set up Paypal.
11. Misc topics reviewing security, backup, etc. This may be "Things new users didn't know to ask."
12. List of other quality tutorials on a variety of topics.

Hi Bruce

This would be great if it was all located in a wiki...

Well... for me, my top five would be...

1. How to make your Admin secure via SSL would be handy.
   For example, I've only got it so the little golden locket is only on when I log in, but when I'm viewing orders its off. How to fix?

2. How to work out the sideboxes.
   Ie: replacing a banner from within one to the one I wanted. How to put a picture inside a sidebox, text in a sidebox, etc.

3. More detailed comments in css would be handy as I don't know whats the name of the bit of code that I want to change the colour or even how to space out the products.
   (and yes, I found my answer in the forum but it was hard going as I had no idea it was "called - spacer/padding")

4. How to add a new link to the top of the page (header.php) and a hyperlink to an external site (ie: your main home page)

5. The final pre-flight checklist BEFORE you go live.
   What one needs to triple check before going live to the world.

Sermonzone:

If it a waste of anyone's time, detracts from the community, goes in the wrong direction or has a better way to be done, please let me know.
Certainly not! You are doing a great service and are to be commended!

A document which makes it "easier" for newbies to reference info that they will most cetainly need is very good thing. That kind of document would have been very handy when I first started with Zen Cart and probably would still be helpful to me now. that is why I am contributing ideas.

When I first started here I already had a backgorund in PHP, MYSQL CSS2, PHP, Apache, FTP, SSL, etc. But I still had to read, re-read and re-read the Zen Cart FAQ and the various readme docs to absorb many of the new ideas (e.g. overrides). I do feel for others without the prior experience I had.

And even now, when I think I have an improved grasp, a new issue pops up and knocks me on my butt. (I now consider myself as an 'Intermediate' not 'Advanced' Zen Cart user). Often enough I find that a solution I applied to one problem does not readily apply to another very similar problem. So reading and more reading to find a workaround is often the only solution. But this describes life in all aspects, not just Zen Cart customization work.

It comes down to this... if newbie store-owners are unwilling to invest in the "required" reading (e.g. on XHTML and CSS) before jumping into customizing Zen Cart, then they should hand over the "customization" project to someone else who has.

Help bait the first hook, and do the first cast if needed, but the reeling in part... well sometimes it is desirable to show folks how to reel it in too. Hopefully then they will be able to return the favor and teach others to do the same. This is the spirit in which I post here ;-)

With that said...

Regarding CSS, ALL newbies should be directed to the W3C CSS site for an overview of the CSS2.1 model. Even if CSS2.1 is still considered a "working draft", it is fairly well considered the standard - http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/

Required reading, no getting around it.

CSS v.3 is coming. But right now only basic CSS 2.1 proficiency is required for those who want to customize current version of Zen Cart. However be aware that new features exist in CSS3 which could also prove helpful to many Zen Cart customizers.

Important CSS 2.1 Categories -
relevant to Zen cart customization:

• Syntax, Selectors, Property Values, Cascading, Inheritance
• Box model, Visual formatting model, (Line box), Positioning
• Color, Backgrounds (& Borders)
• Tables, (Columns, Lists)
• Text (Layout, Text Effects)
• (Style)

(parentheses indicates new CSS3 categories which may also be helpful in customizing Zen Cart).

Another area to consider is browser CSS (and XHTML) support differences.

Direction to a quality website exist illustrating/comparing browser CSS support differences would be useful. . I thought I had a bookmark to a quality site describing how well IE7, IE6, Firefox 1.5, and latest Opera and Safari browsers, support CSS 2.1 and XHTML 1.0. But cannot locate right now.

I am repeating myself... Firefox Web Developer Extension is the easiest tool to use to display how CSS is applied to a Zen Cart site, and easiest tool for customizing the CSS.

CSS and XHTML work together. You want to know both!
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/

Thus Zen Cart customizers need a basic background in "XHTML 1.0 Transitional". http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/

Validating your CSS and XHTML is highly recommended.
The sites above have links to W3C CSS and XHTML validators.

(and you might want to learn about the differences between "Transitional" and "Strict" XHTML revisions. And if interested in managing your mark-up for Mobile phones and other small devices you may want to check out the newer "Basic" XHTML revision http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-xhtml-basic-20060607/ ).

Also a discussion focusing on standard CSS and XHTML Accessibility features which apply (or do not apply) to Zen Cart and/or different browsers might be warranted.

Woody

The Things I Struggle(d) With, Or, What I Did on My Spring Break:

1. TAXES! Being Canadian, we have more levels of tax than Cher has silicone scars. I know that there is a good tutorial on it - I believe it's by Dr. Byte??? But in your newbie guide, put a link directly to it, including the few comments that followed his post on clarifying zones.

2. GLOSSARY. Oh I am SO in agreement with this. Everyone here has been really helpful to me, but each and everytime I have had to ask for clarification. Because you guys live and breath this stuff so often, you have your own terminology and it seems self-evident to you. But think of it as its own separate language. Think of the high school French you took and then plunk yourself down in Paris. You'll understand things if, and only if, they speak slow enough. And even then there'll be words you need clarification on.

3. Inserting your own logo. There are about 32 1/2 different versions of the php file where you can change your logo. To someone like me, they look almost identical. Be specific as to why you change THAT particular file and not the others. I've been given the instructions and have followed to the letter (at least I thought I did) and I still can't get it right. :blush: Explain where you locate the file that you are linking to. Be specific. What files cannot be used and what size is a no-no.

4. REPRECUSSIONS. I don't know about you, but I learn the hard way: by screwing things up then I know oh, so THAT's why you don't do that. If you explain how the walls come tumbling down if you do THIS, it'll help some people retain things.

5. The difference between changing text files in Admin and changing them in FTP. I don't even know if there is a practical difference.

6. HTML - maybe find a good site that has a basic HTML tutorial and link to it. That'll help the colour changes and some other basic formatting questions. It'll also help a little on understanding why changing some things in the CSS file is or is not a good thing.

7. IMAGES. Oh man, if it wasn't for all my blonde hair, you'd see all the grey this has given me. I only found AFTER I had asked the question and someone linked to it a place that explains the MED and LRG image procedure and even then, because I had no idea of the thumbnail size vs. full file size memory issue, that was only so much help. In this area I was a complete and total blank slate and had to get a program to make the appropriate thumbnails (which were given their own thumbnail prefix by that program) and then MED and LRG file sizes from it. Then I had to figure out on my own that the MED and LRG files also need the thumbnail prefix to work. It took me about 4 days to figure that one and it was very frustrating.

This is a great idea and I wish you luck. :thumbsup:

Woody

You make a lot of good points in your post above. Just two things that I would disagree with. Firstly I wouldn't get people too whipped up aboyt the possibilities inherent in CSS3. CSS2 has been around since 1998 and still isn't fully supported by the main browsers. So sexy though some of the CSS3 features will be, it will most likely be some time before all the main the browsers support them (correctly), let alone reaching a position where Zen Cart users' site visitors have all upgraded to as yet non-existant upgraded browsers.

Also, I have tended to find that initially CSS is best taken on board by way of seeing it in practice in meaningful examples. The benefits of studying the theoretical underpinnings tend be come later once some intuitive understanding has already been established.

As to your lost site, There are a number of that offer tables showing which browsers support which CSS functions. This is a good example.

kuroi:

Just two things that I would disagree with.

Firstly I wouldn't get people too whipped up aboyt the possibilities inherent in CSS3.
Let's see... I stated...
Woodymon:

CSS v.3 is coming. But right now only basic CSS 2.1 proficiency is required for those who want to customize current version of Zen Cart. However be aware that new features exist in CSS3 which could also prove helpful to many Zen Cart customizers.
I don't see any "whipping up" of CSS3 by me (Note the word "could"). I think we are mostly in agreement ;-) But there are components of CSS3 which are relevant now, and some will become quite relevant sooner, and some later. Folks should at least be aware of CSS3. Especially when they ask why cannot CSS2.1 do this, or do that? (some ideas were removed from CSS2 during the transtion to CSS2.1. But are doable with CSS3). Anyway just because a browser is not fully complaint with CSS3 does not mean it does not support of some useful CSS3 features. But I defer to you as you are a CSS pro and I am not ;-)

It all comes down to the question: "which browsers do you want to support?" BEFORE injecting ANY code into the Zen Cart core, or for that matter, BEFORE making any customizations to Zen cart layout, you must ask this question.

kuroi:

Also, I have tended to find that initially CSS is best taken on board by way of seeing it in practice in meaningful examples. The benefits of studying the theoretical underpinnings tend be come later once some intuitive understanding has already been established.
Not sure if we are in disagreement here but different strokes for different folks. When i first began with CSS I was completely overwhelmed. To get a special effect to my layouts veryone would tell me to insert this or that code into my HTML and into stylesheet. But I would never understand the what and why. So after brief struggles I found what put me ahead was a quick study of base CSS terminology (at W3C). Then I was able to combine practice with theory (as they reinforce/complement each other....kind of like taking chemistry or physics class, you have lab time along with general theory lecture). I feel the W3C site does a good job of illustrating effect of stylesheet changes and has been very helpful; to me. And other previous posters haver posted links to quality CSS sites. And your Future Zen template is also very helpful in this regard, which I posted previously in this thread.

kuroi:

As to your lost site, There are a number of that offer tables showing which browsers support which CSS functions. This is a good example.
Thanks much for the link. Very helpful! We need a site that combines XHMTL 1.0/CSS2.1 browser support comparisons.

Woody

Woodymon:

When I first started here I already had a backgorund in PHP, MYSQL CSS2, PHP, Apache, FTP, SSL, etc. But I still had to read, re-read and re-read the Zen Cart FAQ and the various readme docs to absorb many of the new ideas (e.g. overrides). I do feel for others without the prior experience I had.

Yeah. See... if it was a challenge for you with all that background, now I don't feel bad for feeling like a non-IQ-having-individual.

I have gone through the w3C CSS tutorial and the HTML one (heh they're bookmarked). To be honest with you: NOTHING in their tutorial looks like the things in my stylesheets :laugh: I really am getting the feeling that I'm muddying up my soup a bit much. Or perhaps my head.... who knows. Not much is getting clearer.

I am going to download my stylesheets and try to make my own blank template kinda thing to look at. I won't know what goes where, but maybe I'll post it and then one of the zen gods can fill in the blanks for me. :wink2:

ladysaat:

I am going to download my stylesheets and try to make my own blank template kinda thing to look at. I won't know what goes where, but maybe I'll post it and then one of the zen gods can fill in the blanks for me.
Get Kuroi's "Future Zen" template (From Downloads - Templates area) and download/install Web Developer Extension for Firefox.

Woody

I think that most of the things I'd want to know have been covered. For me things were a bit more confusing since I downloaded the purple template and seem to then have an extra whole set of files to sort through when looking for something. I was lucky that Bruce helped me with a few things when I got stuck. I still don't know how to use half of the admin stuff but luckily my shop is pretty dang simple and I don't need to.

I find the most confusing part is simply where to find exactly what php or css file you need to mess with. I do think every newbie needs to know to back up everything and keep their own set of files when and if anything in changed in a file. As long as you have backup files then you just tinker until it works!

Sorry for not having more to contribute Bruce! I think you know exactly where I got stuck....

Woodymon:

Get Kuroi's "Future Zen" template (From Downloads - Templates area) and download/install Web Developer Extension for Firefox.

Woody

You know funny you mention that. I just got that today!! From a post on the forum even. So I will get his template right now.

Okay and having just retyped this reply twice, I have NO idea what that web dev tool thing is for in firefox. I just clicked on stuff and managed to have to do this typing three times. :thumbsup: to me.

I am seeing something that maybe will show me where something resides in CSS as pertaining to the document I have open...

resumes playing with new browser toy

Being REAL new this is what I would suggest:

1.) most common/reccomended customizations: which files and their locations

I struggled with this longer than anything. The other thing I have noticed, is some of the things on Wiki, and some answers are a little techy. Im not new to site building, just new to zen cart. However, MOST will give up at the template customization. I gave up reading the how tos, and just jumped in and did it based on previous work with storebuilders and html. I also use https://www.3schools.com for alot of good advice. I dont always get their stuff either , but there are lots of how tos already posted there.

2.) I dont understand most of the attributes, so I just tweak them to see what they do or dont do.

3.) most of what I would change in css is font colors, background colors, px/font size. I dont know that you could explain without giving a whole course on css how to do a style sheet from scratch. Id stick with the basics.

Shipping modules, payment modules, most of that is pretty self explanatory. Right now im up to working on products and categories, but I will let you know if I run into anything else really difficult.

Karen

I am relatively new to Zen Cart - to online stores for that matter. If working with ZC effectively is a 10, I would rate myself a 3.

It is rather EASY to let SermonZone know the area I am struglling with:

It seems like ZC breaks down into two parts:

1. How it looks
2. How it works

How it looks

The 'skeleton' as some have put it is far and away the most difficult thing to get my hands around. So many files with redundant names. I think I make a change - and NO. After another try something changes, but I can't figure out what I just did. Things just don't seem consistent. A Primer on the 'skeleton' and the override system would be nice. The override system seems to me to be an excellent way of handling updates, but without a better understanding of it, it might as well not be there.

I am the kind of guy who needs to know why something works. A better understanding of how ZC works would be good.

I like the "How Do I...?" topics - but how many would that be?! You'd spend the rest of your days answeing questions. Giving me a fish is nice, but I think I'd rather know how to catch one.

Glossary=Good

Useful tools and software=Good

How It Works

To be fair, so far most of the admin part seems fairly straightforward. There is a bit of a problem with the interface (I mean, how hard is it to use "on" and "off" instead of "true" and "false"?) and vocabulary (who knew attributes were options?). I haven't run into any major problems with this side of ZC, by in large to the other side giving me such fits.

Hope this helps you, SermonZone - I'm looking forward to your efforts!

Update on the 'Docs for New Zenners' project.

I am still out of state and only have access to dial-up a few minutes per day. (How did we live before broadband?)

Thanks to all that have contributed to this thread. We are making progress in providing a first draft of tutorials/articles for the information that is most likely to help a new Zen Cart user.

In this thread and around the forum there is a fairly common request to "make it simple" and/or "provide a step-by-step procedure." While we are attempting to do this there are several things new users should be reminded of:

1. There is a learning curve for Zen Cart. It takes hard work and patience. No tutorial will eliminate the need to learn how to operate a new piece of **very **powerful software.

2. Some topics are just hard and will never be simple. For example, review the discussions of CSS by Kuroi and Woody here and elsewhere. Some of the requests for help with CSS are either not possible or not helpful. I can only suggest you read, study, try, re-read.

3. The Devs and others have posted most, if not all, of this information previously. When you think you have searched completely and not found anything, search again on different terms. Search the FAQ and Wiki. You are unlikely to be the first person to ever ask your question.

The goal of this particular project is to assist new users with the most commonly misunderstood tasks. Hoperfully, this will build the Zen community and relieve the Devs of some time-consuming support. These things will help all of us. When Devs have more time, they work on cart improvements. As the cart improves, our businesses benefit. As our business grows we can contribute more money and time to the community. Which allows the Devs to spend more time improving the cart. And so on, and so on, and so on.

If your question is not addressed specifically, please do not despair (or flame). Others are working on important areas of Zen documentation and you still have the forums.

"Where is a new user most likely to find this material?" - We are considering a combination of places and want to fit in with the Devs leadership on this point. Feel free to add you input on the best location for the tutorials.

I would put it in a sticky/page/sep. forum called Zen Guide, or Start Here, or New User Guides

Something completely blatantly out there. I'm not saying it to be insulting or a smarta** I just really think if it isn't completely and totally obvious... like ZenCart Instructions... then you will spend all your time answering "Where is it?".....

I would put a link to it on the zencart download, a link to it in stickied threads at the top of the most viewed forums, and have Merlin put it in his signature :laugh:

This has become a rather long thread, and I haven't read all the posts so I don't know if it's been mentioned...either way, it doesn't matter, it should be mentioned again!

There should be some sort of detailed tutorial as to having a store live or for testing. This should describe how the owner of the store can act like a customer, but no real customers can see anything, I'm fairly certain it's designed to be able to do this, right? Anywho, I don't know how to do that. Also it should be doable with specific categories. For example, I have a "gift certificates" category that's not currently active, I'm pretty sure there is a way for me to test it without letting other people see it, but I don't know how. There should be a detailed description on putting a store "down for construction" and stuff like that.

Also, our store has a LOT of big items, greater than 50lbs. There should be a way to specify specific shipping conditions (at the simplest, make it say "this item requires and invoice for shipping) or something like that. I guess that's probably something to do with the attributes, but as has been mentioned many times already, the attribute controller needs a lot of explination.

There "should" be great tutorials, detailed and comprehensize handbooks, hundreds of plug and play templates, etc. But this is free software. Either 1. you are a developer and are focused on helping people with questions in the forum and working on the next release, or 2. you are a small business owner, too busy or strapped for time to sit down and write a manual that would outdated by the time you've finished it because this cart evolves too fast.

Its difficult, I know, we all know. But its the price you pay for freeware. You either pay in time and learn, or you pay in cash and have someone else do it for you.

Hi all, I read through the thread and thought I'd just put a suggestion. haha. I'm a new user to Zen Cart and the one big question I had when I was trying to set up (I'm still in the process of tweaking and everything) was : What do I need to set to get the shop up and working? haha. I initially had problems just getting the checkout process to work smoothly but Vger and Ajeh were really helpful. CSS wise, I had minimal problems because I am quite familiar with CSS (and even if you messed up here...there's no big harm done...the site just looks a little weird...haha). Just a small input. ^^

A question I've answered several times in recent days is "How do I make x show (or not show) only on y page?" It's really pretty simple - see here.

It's not something every new Zenner needs, but seems pretty common, and widespread knowledge will help more Zen Carts be custom-tailored.