Template Monster: Public Service Announcement

Yes this sucks. I heard about ZenCart through TemplateMonster. A great storefront with a "best of breed" template. What's not to like. Little did I know.

I installed ZenCart and it works like a charm with the default template. HOWEVER, I was finally ready to purchase a Template Monster template last night so I did. Immediately I have an issue as seen in this post:

http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76223

Perhaps I should have searched on "Template Monster" here. If TM continues to be an issue for the ZenCart community I would encourage ZenCart to post a warning about TM in your downloads area. That would be a good idea.

That said, as things stand now, I just want my new $160 Template Monster template to work on my new site. Right now I'm in limbo until that happens. They have beautiful templates compared to others I've seen, but if they do not work then they are useless for my storefront and a waste of $160. TM if you are reading this, do you have any thoughts on my error? I also submitted a help ticket last night. Looking forward to getting this going.

Thanks.

rwuhrman:

Perhaps I should have searched on "Template Monster" here. If TM continues to be an issue for the ZenCart community I would encourage ZenCart to post a warning about TM in your downloads area. That would be a good idea.
.

certainly not a bad idea to have at minimum a link to this thread : )

stage:

Ok maybe it would be a large expense to initiate legal action against TM.

isn't there multiple legal authorities they could be reported to ?

nothing like a call from the attorney generals office to motivate you to stop scamming people ...

Nope,
there really are NO Legal authoritiues to report to

what theyare doing ISNT illegal,
there templates WORK as is,

they just dont allow ANY flexibility

Merlinpa1969:

Nope,
there really are NO Legal authoritiues to report to

what theyare doing ISNT illegal,
there templates WORK as is,

they just dont allow ANY flexibility

What's the name of that Dilbert character that carries around the big spoon (instead of a big pitchfork)? :smile:

So they go along just continuing to do their thing making lots of money and who suffers? An open source project and it's users. How ironic. But until someone makes a stand that's about all we can say.

Merlinpa1969:

Nope,
there really are NO Legal authoritiues to report to

what theyare doing ISNT illegal,
there templates WORK as is,

they just dont allow ANY flexibility

I've been following this thread for some time with interest. I kind of hoped that templatemonster would step up and decide to provide quality templates that work out of the box like the free templates here do.
On the other hand I've been listening to people moan about not being able to do anything about the fact that the templates they sell don't perform as expected, about how they invested alot of money then spent hours trying to fix it, etc...

Now, I am not an attorney. I am rather learned and have extensive legal experience from a corporate perspective vut I am not an attorney so lets get that part straight from the git go. The below is just my thoughts and opinions you might say.

I took a look at the templatemonster site with respect to zen cart templates.

I noticed a few things of interest.

They say amongst other things:

"we guarantee the high quality of our Zen Cart Templates"
"Zen Cart Templates....are presented to provide you with the simplest solution in setting up your own Zen Cart store"
"Be sure that the ZenCart Template that you purchase is a premium design and contains all the necessary files for easy installation and customization"
" Now imagine - you can create your own ecommerce store in no time and start earning money right away"
"The only thing you need to do is browse our collection of Zen Cart templates and choose the one that meets your needs and wishes"
Zen Cart Templates displayed on this page can be easily installed within several minutes."

Of note is they are also selling the templates point blank as being "1.3"
1.3 implies to me they are fully compatible with 1.3 Zen Cart meaning withn the "Standard of the Trade with respect to 1.3 Zen Cart".
If I go to where I will find the "standard" of the zen cart trade, which happens to be the Zen Cart site where the zen cart developers reside there I will find a lot of "1.3" templates, for free. If I try any of them or all of them I will find they work within certain standards and in fact with respect to the "standard of the trade" (The trade in this case being the Zen Cart Templates) they are all basically the same. Note this because it will make a distinction a little later in this argument I pose.

And on the same page they copy verbiage direct from the zen cart teams open source softwares selling points:
"Zen Cart offers many features: Improved Template System..." (my emphasis)

Then on the zencart site this is said about the template system in relation to the software: (Which I must assume is the "improved template system")

XHTML 1.0 compliant - nearly table-less layout
change the colors, fonts and many graphics using Cascading Stylesheets
add, move, remove sideboxes via the Admin Tool
template overrides that do not get overwritten during upgrades
override functionality without having to learn PHP
create as many different looks as you would like and choose them from the admin

Now, if I didn't know better and I was to read carefully the templatemonster sales pitch along with the Zen Cart sales pitch associated on the same page of their templates they want me to buy and absent any other disclaimers bold or otherwise, I would, as a reasonable person think, based upon templatemonsters words, that their templates are not only "compatible with zencart" but also function in the same manner any reasonable person, novice or expert, with zen cart would expect or anticipate.
Meaning, that I would believe there to be an agreement, a correlation, between the templatemonster sales pitch and the zen cart standard vis a vis, "improved template design."

That's just one factor. The other factor is this "ease of installation- in just minutes." From what I am hearing, this is not entirely true and in fact the templates don't work the same as a standard "zen cart "improved template design" template and cannot be installed in mere minutes so as to work within the same standard of a standard zen cart template as provided by the zen cart community (which as the developers set the standards of the trade by virtue of their development.)

And there are many more pieces of the above I can pick apart from a logical perspective.

My point is, it sounds to me at the least like it might be false and misleading advertising especially as it relates to the Zen Cart "standard of the trade" and templatemonster implying that their templates meet the Zen Cart "standard of the trade".

In such case there is plenty that can be done.

And it sounds to me also if indeed it is false and misleading advertising that there is the possiblity of something called a class action lawsuit by those that purchased a templatemonster zen cart template that were not satisfied and not refunded their money which was invested in a template that proved to be sold under false advertising.

And then there is also the tort called "fitness of merchantability". This is a rather complex area of law as described in the uniform commercial code. In essence this area states, amongst other things, that there is an implied warranty of fitness and/or merchantability in a particular area for a particular purpose and that the seller is guaranteeing the product to be fit for that purpose. What I find interesting about this area of law in reference to this templatemonster scheme is that with respect to the "merchantability" section of the ucc code it states that "The goods must conform to the standards of the trade as applicable to the contract for sale." Now, if I am selling a zen cart open source "1.3" template that is being sold with all of the above referenced promises of ease of use and compatibility and how great thou art along with the alluding towards the zen cart verbiage what would be considered "conforming to the standards of trade?" In my mind that means a zen cart template that works like all the other zen cart templates like I can find here on zen cart because I know those templates to conform to a certain "standard of the trade, as this "standard of the trade" is a standard that has been established by the Zen Cart developers themselves which happen to be the Zen Cart trade per se and those templates found here are all the same in that regard. See where this leads us with respect to templatemonster?

Otherwise, if I was a big corporation afraid I might be sued in a class action law suit by a group of disgruntled customers that got together and pooled their resources to go after my deeper pockets or at the very least cause me some legal misery of having to defend myself because I knew my templates didn't really work according to the Zen Cart Standards of the Trade, then I might do two things to "separate myself". One I might say boldly and in big bold letters on each page where I sold my templates

"THESE TEMPLATES OFFER NO IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY" And I might also add: These templates may not be the same or work the same as a Zen Cart Template as provided by the Zen Cart community at large in that they may not use the same "design scheme or compatibilty scheme or standard of the Zen Cart commuinity developers that others use and may not comply to the same standards of trade of the Zen Cart development community blah blah.."

(In compliance with specific requirements as per the UCC so no one sues my pants of for misleading and misrepresenting advertisement and false claims)

Now, like I said I am not an attorney. And I am not telling any disgruntled consumers to file a class action lawsuit or take other measures such as going to the Consumer affairs dept of the state attorney general or the FTC or anything like that and I've never bought a templatemonster zen cart template myself. I'm just giving my thoughts on what I have been hearing in the above thread and how certain legal arguments may or may not apply...

Just something to ponder.... :lamo:

thomaswhiteeagle,

Did you overlook the statement "what theyare doing ISNT illegal,
thereCOLOR="Red"[/COLOR] templates WORK as is, ??

The claims made are generally true and they do not state 100% compatibility.
They are simple to install in minutes etc.

Your assertions are mostly based upon your "assumptions" of the meaning of the statements and not TM's actual statements.

Just another opinion from another non-attorney

I am holding out hope from the core team that a statement be made about the unfitness of TM in regards to ZC. I think they do a huge mis-service to this project and this community. Why they have not made such a statement is at the very least curious to me. There are now over 300 posts in this thread, most having to do with bad experiences mixing ZC with TM products.

The average user is more than likely coming to ZC with little or no development experience. In need of a suitable design for their online store chances are greater than not they will end up with a TM template. Chances are they will end up with an online store that does not function as expected.

Chances are the person moves on to some other system be it open source or commercial. I think its time to pull the trigger, the evidence is here TM templates DO NOT WORK right out of the box with ZC. What is so difficult about making an official statement to that fact?

The damage that has been done to this project cannot be truly calculated, but it is highly suspected it is severe.

Is there any question that the first thing anyone who hopes to create an internet presence, who hope to be successful selling a product is going to have high on their list a pleasant store front? that individual is more likely than not to encounter TM though their extensive marketing and affliate program to find little else when searching for ZC templates. In the end TM had $150+ more dollars, ZC has one more dissatisfied user.

It's time, front and center Template Monster templates are not compatible with Zen CarT!

but stage,

see thats where things get sticky,
while I agree and think TM should STOP seling their templates until they are fixed to work properly, by this I mean with all the bells and whistles still in place, I dont like the way that they are selling these things to unsuspecting folks and using slick language to do so,

The problem with ZC issuing a public statement like that, is simply that it is slanderous and can get them in trouble,
IF you want the template colors and logo to look JUST like they do when you buy them then TM templates work just like they say they will,
NOWHERE in the text or adds on their site do they say that they are easy to customize, its up to the buyer to to do their research, I dont like it but thats just the way it is,

remember the phrase

Caveat emptor "Let the buyer beware"

Please dont think I condone or am defending Template Monster, this is not my intent,
but only to show WHY ZC cant put up a big template monster sux, ot template monster beware sign.......

Could make this thread a sticky until they get their act together or make things clearer?

To follow up on my complaint about the template not working, to their credit they got back in touch with me and identified the problem as being that my php.ini did not allow short tags. I was able to enable short tags and it works now, though I am jus thitting the surface of zencarts capabilities. I'm a bit concerned about what I read of other issues of not getting full functionality, but I suppose I will hit those walls soon enough as I dive deeper into working with my new template.

Now I will step away and let you guys look at the bigger picture. Yes, there should be some sort of disclaimer if not on the TM site, then please as a community it would be good to know if full functionality is lost with the templates before buying the templates. TM templates have a look that is very nice, and superior (in looks) to many others I've seen but when I bought this the bottom line is that I was expecting full functionality that made me pick Zencart over OSCommerce DotNetShoppingCart, and CRELoaded.

rwuhrman:

To follow up on my complaint about the template not working, to their credit they got back in touch with me and identified the problem as being that my php.ini did not allow short tags.That's actually not at all to their credit. Instead it provided another example of their poor implementation. Good practise in PHP coding includes not using short tags - that's why many hosts have the option disabled.

The underlying reason is that there are other technologies (e.g. XML) that also start their tags with a question mark (e.g. <?xml) and when short tags are enabled the php parser can mistakenly interpret these as php tags and try to execute them.

Although not an expert in the field, I'm guessing that this could seriously compromise AJAX applications.

Template Monster shouldn't be getting you to re-enable this outdated and dangerous approach. They should be eliminating it from their templates.

Actually this is a more serious issue than I had realised. The official PHP basic syntax manual has this to say about short tags> Using short tags should be avoided when developing applications or libraries that are meant for redistribution, or deployment on PHP servers which are not under your control, because short tags may not be supported on the target server. For portable, redistributable code, be sure not to use short tags.And it has been drawn to my attention that all tag styles other than <?php are now deprecated, which means that they are likely to be unsupported by future versions of PHP.

This in turn could mean that templates purchased from Template Monster now, may simply stop working in the not too distant future (and I'm guessing that wouldn't be restricted to the ones they develop for Zen Cart).

Is there any way that a "technical advisement" can get added to the server requirements page, maybe something along the line of, "Please be aware that in the past, conflicts have been reported by many users using TM templates?" I know you'd have to run it by a lawyer to get it phrased in legalese, but somewhere to keep newbies from jumping in and buying something that will give them headaches?

And what will happen when 1.4 ZC is implemented? Are there improvements that will conflict with TM products and might make them stop working?

Yes, some of TM's products are "pretty." However, unless someone is an expert at php and css (which I am not), they can be pretty useless to a new or even an experienced cart owner who isn't capable of debugging and modifying their code.

I saw another site offering ZC templates for about $40 each, and when I looked at their screenshots, all they were, basically, were the Classic template with new graphics and colors implemented. And the template samples I saw were identical to each other except for graphics/colors.

I had an interesting phone conversation on Friday with a hosting provider while trying to figure out an issue for a customer, and he was asking me about ZC because they supported osC but didn't know much about ZC. When I told him about the template override system, he was VERY interested in it and said he'd look into it. Maybe THAT'S where we can also educate new users -- at the hosting level. If we educate them, they can help educate ZC users.

Maybe there could be a section on this site, "Important information for hosting providers to know" that you could list "potential" conflicts with 3rd-party templates from vendors, including TM.

I really like zen cart but i started another site and i was decided to try a different cart because TM and algozone sell attractive templates for the other cart.

While i like the way zen cart works better i am ultimately much happier with this other cart because of the high quality template . The template is the face of my store and our business . Perception of quality is so huge on the Internet , people have no idea if you operate a 100,000 foot warehouse or your spare bedroom. a crappy strorefront can give a huge business the impression of the spare bedroom and quality storefront can give a small business the impression they are a major world wide provider.

I wish someone would step up and start producing high quality attractive templates for zen, there is certainly a market for it.

Merlinpa1969:

but stage,

see thats where things get sticky,
while I agree and think TM should STOP seling their templates until they are fixed to work properly, by this I mean with all the bells and whistles still in place, I dont like the way that they are selling these things to unsuspecting folks and using slick language to do so,

The problem with ZC issuing a public statement like that, is simply that it is slanderous and can get them in trouble,

Couldn't they say something something like

"The zen cart team does not support any commercial template providers. Template monster is the largest provider of templates like this , if you are interested in reading more about their service please read this visit this thread"

that would work,

but Im going to be honest, rather than dropping the cart because of the templates avail why not look at getting one customized for YOU that would be much better,

and there wouldnt be 30000 of em out there

snarkys:

Couldn't they say something something like

"The zen cart team does not support any commercial template providers. Template monster is the largest provider of templates like this , if you are interested in reading more about their service please read this visit this thread" I agree.. There should be a statement that AT LEAST tells folks not to use these awful templates.. I tried to tell a (former) friend this before she bought one of these AWFUL templates that there were issues with these templates.. I told her that IF she decided to go through with it that she would be at the mercy of Template Monster for corrections, and that they had an inconsistent record of fixing issues.. She failed to understand the full ramifications of using one of these templates.. The BIGGEST one being that there will be NO SUPPORT forthcoming to anyone who comes here seeking help if they've used one of these Template Monster templates.. So I think that some kind of disclaimer of sort is important to communicate to the Zen Cart community..

Merlinpa1969:

that would work,

but Im going to be honest, rather than dropping the cart because of the templates avail why not look at getting one customized for YOU that would be much better,

and there wouldnt be 30000 of em out thereThis is exactly what I am looking into now.. Configuring Zen Cart is a breeze now that I've got a couple under my belt.. I've done some pretty nice styling of the carts I've done, but I would love it if I could "farm out" the design part for future carts... However, I need a template that not only looks good, but does not circumvent the core code of this cart.. This is where Template Monster fails miserably IMO..

At least this thread allows others to vent a bit. Somewhere along the way about 150 posts and 2 months ago we lost all dialog with the 2 Template Monster representatives (fellis and TMonster) in this forum thread. They simply vanished.

My guess is they've made their business decision that Zen Cart is just not worthwhile, but will keep selling what they've already created. Oddly, Zen Cart continues to increase it's position, and there is clearly a market for well designed and attractive templates.