Need to remove yellow Express Checkout button!

Hello kbalona;
Are you saying you have found a way to alow customers to checkout with Express and you not have a Payments Pro contract with PayPal?

Stage, you have that one backwards,
you can use express without pro but you cant use pro without express.

Sorry Merlin;
With all due respect. I do beleive you may be talking about the Direct Payment API. Which, yes, must be used with Express. Payments Pro is the overall service that provides these three services.

• Direct Payment API.
• PayPal Express
• Virtual Terminal

I beleive my question still stands.
has kbalona found a way to alow customers to checkout with Express and you not have a Payments Pro contract with PayPal?
I ask this because of the following quote from kbalona.

Originally Posted by stagebrace:
Then why have you installed PayPal Express? It will not work without having a PayPal account plus a Payments Pro contract.

Originally Posted by kbalona:
That's not true. Perhaps you should research a little.

stagebrace, let's clear this part up. You do not need to be subscribed to WPP to use Express Checkout.

Louis:

and then

Are you or are you not using Express Checkout??
I am using the Express Checkout module, but NOT using the actual Express Checkout.

Kim:

If you aren't using it then JUST TURN IT OFF and you won't have a big orange button.

But I am using the module, just not the Express Checkout!

I am using the Express Checkout module, but NOT using the actual Express Checkout.

Then you are breaking the terms of service.

Well I'll be;
OK, you dont have to pay 20 bucks a month to use Express Checkout. Thats cleared up.

Now back to the express button.
I hope for your business's sake, PayPal does not find out you are using there Express Checkout product and not following there rules. Or do you think I am wrong on that also?

I am using the Express Checkout module, but NOT using the actual Express Checkout.

you need to either put the button back or switch to IPN

Merlinpa1969:

you need to either put the button back or switch to IPN

IPN has a major problem, I can't keep using it. And I still haven't seen a place that I clicked "Agree' to button placement.

Just by actually using Paypal you implicitly agreed .
http://www.paypal.com

Legal agreements at the bottom of the page

you agreed to follow the rules when you signed up for the paypal account

and its one of their rules,

the paypal express module uses a different system and they can tell if you are using it or not,

the IPN system works just fine IF you set it up right

this is from the integration guide at
https://www.paypalobjects.com/WEBSCR-470-20070705-1/en_US/pdf/PP_OptionExpressCheckout_IntegrationGuide.pdf
on page number 17

IMPORTANT: When you offer PayPal Express Checkout to your customers, you are
required to display it in two forms, for your customers’ best buying
experience:

1. PayPal as a Checkout Choice on your shopping cart page
2. PayPal as a Payment Method

I hope this helps to eliminate some confusion thats been going on

OK. Now I see it.

I read this post with great amusement. It sounded, to me, like kablona wants to use the EC API to process the payments without displaying the yellow button.

I looked at page 17 that Merlin pointed out and read it's contents.
It says,

IMPORTANT:

When you offer PayPal Express Checkout to your customers, you are

required to display it in two forms, for your customers’ best buying

experience: ...

It would seem to me that by eliminating the yellow button and forcing customers to go the ZC checkout route, that he, infact, is not offering "Express Checkout" at all, there's nothing express about it.

When not making an offer of express checkout, why would one feel obligated to display an EC button?

Bear in mind that you will not be able to display it anywhere, nor mention the word express and paypal in the same breath.

It may come down to a matter of semantics when you consider that there is nothing that states that you cannot use the EC API methodology unless you are offering express checkout. It does say that if you are offering, then this how you must go about it.

Disclaimer:
This was a devil's advocation for the incitement of discourse. Nothing stated in this post reflects anyone's intent to defraud or mislead and is not the opinion of this author or that of the forum it is posted on.

actually express api is the service that is in fact being used, NOT the IPN system in Kablonas case so technically they are offering EXPRESS services just not correctly,

Once I got over my own confusion, I tried to find the root cause for the whole thread. I believe the user really wanted to use PayPal IPN. But chose not to because of instances of lost customer / sale data. Is there anything the user should or can do for the instances of lost customer / sale data while using the PayPal IPN?

I do apologize for being wrong and appreciate the professionally handled discussion of issues.

Zen Cart is magical!

Zinfandel:

I read this post with great amusement. It sounded, to me, like kablona wants to use the EC API to process the payments without displaying the yellow button.

I looked at page 17 that Merlin pointed out and read it's contents.
It says,

It would seem to me that by eliminating the yellow button and forcing customers to go the ZC checkout route, that he, infact, is not offering "Express Checkout" at all, there's nothing express about it.

When not making an offer of express checkout, why would one feel obligated to display an EC button?

Bear in mind that you will not be able to display it anywhere, nor mention the word express and paypal in the same breath.

It may come down to a matter of semantics when you consider that there is nothing that states that you cannot use the EC API methodology unless you are offering express checkout. It does say that if you are offering, then this how you must go about it.

Disclaimer:
This was a devil's advocation for the incitement of discourse. Nothing stated in this post reflects anyone's intent to defraud or mislead and is not the opinion of this author or that of the forum it is posted on.
Exactly.
The rules require the placement of the button in a certain place. However, I'm not moving the button. It's staying where it is, you just can't see it.
Merlinpa1969:

actually express api is the service that is in fact being used, NOT the IPN system in Kablonas case so technically they are offering EXPRESS services just not correctly,
Not really, because like Zinfandel stated, I'm not offering Express Checkout. Only standard checkout, but via the Express checkout module, which has the standard checkout built in.

stagebrace:

Once I got over my own confusion, I tried to find the root cause for the whole thread. I believe the user really wanted to use PayPal IPN. But chose not to because of instances of lost customer / sale data. Is there anything the user should or can do for the instances of lost customer / sale data while using the PayPal IPN?

I do apologize for being wrong and appreciate the professionally handled discussion of issues.

Zen Cart is magical!

You're exactly right. IPN was exactly what I WANTED, but the module is making too much trouble. The express checkout module offers the same features as IPN, along with the Express option, which I didn't want, which is the reason for me removing the button.

Just to chime in here.

1. The Express Checkout module uses a CURL-enabled API to talk to PayPal, but the IPN module uses a more traditional form-submit/POST and waits for a postback response.

2. kbalona apparently is hosted on a server that doesn't allow the IPN postbacks to work properly.
   Using the PDT support added since the May 20 patch fileset should help alleviate those issues, as it provides an immediate reply instead of waiting for postbacks.

3. Regardless of using the IPN or Express Checkout module w/o buttons, kbalona will still not receive echeck clearing IPN notifications from PayPal, so will have to manually do follow-up on those after receiving echeck payment-clearance notices by email.
   To resolve this requires resolving the IPN problem.
   Troubleshooting assistance for IPN problems can be found here:
   http://www.zen-cart.com/wiki/index.php/PayPal

Further, debug logging and the response-testing tool may be of further debugging assistance in the IPN problem.

.

Thank you for the info, DrByte.
I do have PDT enabled, and I had really hoped that would be the end of my IPN problems. But just a few transactions after that (after installing the May 20th patch), it "did it again", by which I mean that I received email notification of payment, but there was no record of an order in the Admin. I checked and double-checked that the PDT info is correct. And before anybody asks, I did remove and re-install the IPN module. I'm not saying that it'snot possible that I still have something configured wrong, but I was just wasting too much time trying to troubleshoot it. I did run the response checking tool that checks communications from PayPal and everything was clear.
I hadn't thought about it that there might be a glitch with e-checks.

ummm ... just curious ... why would you install the May 20th patch when there are new patches than that? :unsure: