How would you handle this situation? Ship or wait?

First off, this has nothing to do with Zen-cart... I just thought it an interesting scenario to share with other business owners for discussion.

Let me back up a little: My shop is set up so that I sell in-stock items, and I also have a "request" system where customers can request (not order) out-of-stock items and I do my best to bring them in... no obligation to either party. When/if I do get them in, the customers are contacted in order and the item is held specifically for them for 7 days. That's a mod I developed specifically for my situation.

Now... I've been out of stock of a certain $600 item for a couple months and I have a lot of people waiting a long time for it - it is by far my best selling item, but the factory closed down for retooling so I ran out and am only just now getting them in.

Ok, so Mr. Senior was one of the first to request the item... back in March. It took until now for it to finally come in. As dumb luck timing would have it, I'm leaving on vacation on Monday and not returning until August.

mr. Senior emails me saying he's having troubles with the checkout process. I phone him, and he sounds about 90 years old and has no idea why he's getting an error. I don't either... PayPal is rejecting his card and giving no reason.

I tell him he can pay by cheque, but then of course I won't get it until after I leave and normally, he would have to wait until August for me to ship it. A real disappointment for Mr. S to be sure! Furthermore, he happens to be visiting his son who can help with the installation (its a car part) and it would be ultra-convenient for him to receive it ASAP.

So... instant payment isn't working. He wants to pay by cheque and have me ship it immediately. I won't be able to deposit it until August, and can't clear it until probably late August at that. Furthermore, he wants me to ship it to an alternate address.

Do I ship? Or do I just say tough luck and wait?

Shipping would go against every fraud-prevention tip in existence... alternate address is a classic, and cheque-kiting is the oldest trick in the book. But on the other hand, I have absolutely no reason to suspect him... he seems like a genuine old man that wants his part. On top of that 90% of the inconvenience is the timing of my trip, and the delay of the factory (10% is his card being rejected for unknown reasons).

What would you do?

For the record: I shipped. I decided to be trusting and give the benefit of the doubt.

• Steven

You're a nice person. I would probably not have shipped, taking the rejection of his card as a red flag, unless I'd done business with him before.

My fingers are crossed for you though.

Consider COD the next time- at least you have a better chance of getting paid.

Hi
I would not ship.
I had a lovely genuine sounding woman, who ordered a costume of me, needed it by Friday. (This was wednesday)

She would send the cheque that wednesday evening, I would send the costume.
I had the item in stock, wrapped it and I was going to post it.

My partner said no way, wait for the check.

I am still waiting for the cheque, , but she luckily for me is still waiting for the costume.

She even had the cheak to phone me Friday in a temper to say her costume had not arrived...

I hear you all... I hope it wasn't a mistake.

My main reason for thinking he's genuine... is if he's a scammer, he's a scammer of opportunity, not purpose. The only reason there is even a possibility that I would send before the cheque arrives and clears, is that I'm heading out of the country for several weeks... and he didn't know that.

As for the card getting rejected... PayPal rejects a lot of cards that are completely valid, including my own. I've twice had my card rejected for no know reason and with no explanation. Credit good, nowhere near my limit, address exact...

Kim. COD. Damn. Wish I had thought of that. Filed away for next time, thanks. In Canada, COD is so uncommon I didn't even think it was done any more, but I just checked the CanadaPost website and sure enough, it is an option. I can't do it through my normal online shipping tools... only at the counter, but still.

Cheers.

• Steven

On second thought... COD (in Canada) is a bit of a farce it seems. I just phoned to see how exactly it works. I pay them $6 for the "service" and they collect the cheque... made out to me... and forward it to me. What's the difference?? If it bounces or stop payment is made, its still the same result.

And they don't accept credit cards through COD.

So either I'm missing something, or its $6 to me just to save $0.51 in postage to mail the cheque.

• Steven

With COD even if the check bounces at least you can go after them for the bad check ...

I would of had the younger son attempt to use the credit card ... or sent a manual PayPal request payment where you could walk him through this or the son walk him through it or PayPal walk him through it ...

That delayed order for a theif is not instant gratification ... so that should be a plus in your favor ...

Most likely a nice, harmless old man whom you have made very happy ... :smile:

Let us know how it turns out ...

s_mack:

On second thought... COD (in Canada) is a bit of a farce it seems.Ah. You're assuming that COD is for the benefit of the seller. It's as much, if not more for the buyer, allowing them to delay payment that might otherwise be required upfront until they have confirmed that the goods are real and delivered. It does a fine job of that.

I like the idea of a PayPal invoice; I also like having Google Checkout as a backup option on another page (not hooked up to the cart, just as a backup to be pulled out in situations like this).
Hope it works out for you. 85% of the people in the world are completely honest - trouble is, you don't know which 85%. :)

Scott

Not sure that posting "what I would do" is such a good idea as it give all the crooks online a look into your methods. :no:

However I don't believe a fraudster is going to wait that long.
Most of these people just want the cash, so how easy is it to convert your product into cash at a pawn shop?
Is your product something that is targeted by these people?

After you elimimate the professionals then is this a person that wants your product, but can't/won't pay?

One of your problems is having too much empathy for your customer.
This is a business after all. :laugh:
Would the big boys send out.. No they wouldn't, because they have policies in place that don't rely on emotion.
Does this cause resentment from the customer, sure. But hey its their card thats the problem not yours. Why not have the son pay for it with his card?

I think you will fine however because it probably is a genuine situation.
Maybe you need to make some policies that cover these situations in advance, without the emotion of the moment.
Then you can just say "I would like to help you, But its company policy that....." and not feel too guilty.

Good luck

Why not have him wire the money to your bank? You could check it the next day and make sure the funds are there. Some banks charge a fee for wire transfer -- $10, usually -- some don't. The fee should be less than the discount amount on a credit card.

I wouldn't ship, particularly to an alternate address. We've had several situations that "didn't feel right," and when we pressed the customer for more details, we never heard from them again.

When the alternate address is within the same area, such as when someone wants the product sent to their business, it makes sense. We've had people from New York want product sent to Florida. These are the ones who never respond.

Are there crooks out there? Just last week, one of my credit cards was charged about $3,000 in online purchases. Citibank says the merchants will eat it, so I'm in the clear. However, the merchants are out the money

Sorry, our "trust" threshold has been violated too many times.

If you've already shipped, I hope you don't get burned.

Thanks for the input everyone! For some reason, I never got a notification from the forum saying anyone had responded (seems to happen a lot here) so I didn't realize any of you had posted.

So an update - it went fine. His cheque showed up and cleared without incident. I very much appreciate your words of caution and comfort - gives me something to think about for next time for sure.

he actually included a thank you card with the payment expressing his appreciation for me doing it despite the irregularities. In his words: > We come from a different time, you and I, when doing business was simple and a man's word meant something. :) I think he presumed I'm as old as he and that I remember "the good ol days". Hardly... just lucky enough to not have gotten burned by the bad new days I suppose.

Thanks again everyone.

• Steven

Thanks for letting us know how it turned out. I'm glad you didn't lose your money. (I, also, am not being notified of posts, but I think I hadn't turned it on in the "options.")