what is the fastest? products vs attributes

Hi.
This is probably easy question for you, but its not an clear answer for me.

Why I'm asking is that I'm on the verge of adding some products with odd combinations, I can add them either way (many products and less attributes, or the other way around). Just want to do it the "right/better" way so I don't slow zencart down.

What is the fastest you reckon just an example:

• To have 40 products and all products are using 100 attributes each.
  or
• To have 100 products and all products are using 40 attributes each.

One more thing, does it in any way slow zencart down if you have ridiciously (say 6000) many attribute values in your database while less products or is it better to have more products (most products will have linked image etc)and less attributes connected to them?

I probably have answered my own question that less products and more attributes are better than the way around, but want to make sure. I don't want my webshop unnecessarily lagg/be slow.

Write me back your thoughts thanks
Dejan

Less attributes is faster ...

The number of products isn't where the slow down occures, it is the processing of the attributes ...

do you mean even when loading the mainpage on webshop, or the slow down occured when trying to view a product with lots of attributes?

good to know

thanks

Ajeh:

Less attributes is faster ...

The number of products isn't where the slow down occures, it is the processing of the attributes ...

Ajeh,

You wrote:

Ajeh:

Less attributes is faster ...

The number of products isn't where the slow down occures, it is the processing of the attributes ...
Could you clarify that a bit?
Is it the number of attributes in the database or is it the number of attributes assigned to the product that slows the process?
I (and it seems many others) need the ability to price and inventory products by attributes. I have been trying to make the new "Attributes Modelnumbers" contribution work, but without success. I considered defining each attribute as model number + description but this leads to a very large number of attributes. Especially so since I use EasyPopulate and the number of columns in the spreadsheet is excessive. Are you saying that this will also drag down the performance of the site even if there are only a few attributes assigned to any one product?

Maury

good question, I wonder the same :)

and I also got the same problem with excessive columns due to too many attributes, no matter that I do, I think I will still have too many attributes, but I guess I could narrow it down some.

is it the number of attributes assigned to the product that slows the process?

At this time it is the number of attributes assigned to a product. The process of gathering them makes many queries to the database and that slows the site. The good news is that process is changing in the 1.4 edition. The bad news is that will not be available for a while.

Example:

Say you have a t-shirt that is available in 5 colors, 5 different sizes and 5 different printed designs - that isn't 15 or 25 different combinations - it is 125 possible combinations.

Kim,
Thanks for the clarification. I suspected that was the real problem. One of my major reasons for using attributes was to reduce the number of individual products and hence, the number of pages to be scrolled in the catalog to find a product. I have decided that the simplest answer to that is to make more subcategories in the menu so the user can go to the correct page more quickly from the flyout menu.

As an aside, I'm not really crazy about the looks of the dropdown box alphabetical search menu. Has anyone ever done a simple one or two line menu of letters and numbers for selection? If not, I may try to work one up as a contribution

Maury

Kim:

At this time it is the number of attributes assigned to a product. The process of gathering them makes many queries to the database and that slows the site. The good news is that process is changing in the 1.4 edition. The bad news is that will not be available for a while.

Example:

Say you have a t-shirt that is available in 5 colors, 5 different sizes and 5 different printed designs - that isn't 15 or 25 different combinations - it is 125 possible combinations.

for my problems its a little different, I can't do like that and have several attributes since zencart doesnt have attribute dependant function.

for example rims, 15" 6,5" wide exist in colors: gold, silver, red, blue, same type of rim exists in 16" aswell but only in colors: red and blue.

also different is that on the 15" the et on the rims are 40, and on 16" its et 12 on red and et30 on blue.

so i need attributes that are a bit done already.
my "complete" attribute would be:
15" red et 40
15" gold et 40
15" silver et 40
15" blue et 40
16" blue et 30
16" red et 12

what I save is the many products of same type of rim model.
I will end up with lots of attributes in my database, but not many combinations on every product.

do you think this might work or should I stick to many products and less attributes? thanks
Dejan

ajeh or kim.

do you think I could go with this type of attributes?
to narrow down a bit of the product.

thanks
Dejan

Product: 15" Rim
Product: 15.5" Rim
Product: 16" Rim
Product 16.5" Rim

Now add associated colors to each Product ...

ajeh, I need to take et in consideration aswell.
in my simple example going by your tips it would be:
15": 1product with 4 attributes.
16": 1product with 2 attributes or 2products with 1attr each.

I want to use the perfect combination, not too many unnecessary products and dont want to overexaggerate every product with attributes.

What I would like to is will the whole webshop become slow overall? Or just when clicking and loading that particular product?
One more question about this; lets say when loading mainpage and on mainpage there is a product shown as "new" which have lots of attributs on it, that won't show, it will only say "more info". Will this also slow down or only when pressed on product?

I have taken a example right from the webshop, this one is a bit more tricky :)

I have a Rim called "D1", this rim exists in theese combinations only.
All factors as wide, size, pcd(5x114,3 or 4x114,3), et, color are important.

17x8,5 5x114,3 et35 - price 8700:-
charcoal with polished lip
silver with polished lip

17x8,5 4x114,3 et35 - price 8700:-
charcoal with polished lip
silver with polished lip
gold with polished lip

17x7,5 5x114,3 et45 - price 8200:-
black with polished lip
gold with polished lip

17x7,5 5x114,3 et35 - price 8200:-
charcoal with polished lip
silver with polished lip
gold with polished lip

17x7,5 5x114,3 et30 - price 8200:-
silver with polished lip
gold with polished lip

17x7,5 4x114,3 et35 - price 8200:-
charcoal with polished lip
silver with polished lip
gold with polished lip

17x7,5 4x114,3 et30 - price 8200:-
charcoal with polished lip
gold with polished lip

18x9 5x114,3 et30 - price 10.000:-
black with polished lip
white with polished lip

18x8 5x114,3 et48 - price 9500:-
gold with polished lip

18x8 5x114,3 et35 - price 9500:-
black with polished lip

I will have maybe 20-40 products of this type, if I'm counting this product as 1product.
With this specs on "D1" rim in knowledge I have come up to some different combinations:
(all below is only counted for D1 rim as different ways to setup the different size, color, et, wideness etc.)

10prod giving each size, wideness, et and pcd(ex: 5x114,3) a product of their own - with low attributes assigned per product: 2attr, 3attr, 2attr, 3attr, 2attr, 3attr, 2attr, 2attr, 1attr, 1attr = total 21attr used for this setup.
1prod - very easy and clean on site but gives 21attr on one product for this setup.
2prod pcd 5x114 vs 4x114 - 13attr, 8attr for this setup.
2prod size 17" vs 18" - 17attr, 4attr for this setup.
3prod size+pcd - 9attr, 8attr, 4attr for this setup
4prod size+wideness - 5attr, 12attr, 2attr, 2attr for this setup.

Soo... what do you reckon? confusing ey? :)

To be honest I think I'd prefer to go with 1 product and 21attr for this particular example. It depends on how it will slow the shop. If only when clicking to view actual product then its alot better that a slowing webshop overall, but thats up to proof when hoping for an answer on this post :)

It would be best if there is a plan on in the near/far future to add a function in zencart to make dependant attributes. Don't know if it would slow or speed up the database queries, but it would make our webshops look the greatest possible with attributes, check my problem now, it would have been as easy as taking candy from a baby do adding this product if dependant attributes would be a feature in zencart.

How far away is the speedup database query in edition 1.4 when having lots of attributes? And how much faster will it be? If its worth to start already now building up with lots of attributes to make the product adding faster in wait for 1.4 edition, and /or when/if dependant attributes are available in zencart.