How is the legal way to sell Zen-Cart modules on my website?

Hi all,

I have published my store where I sell Zen-Cart mods, but the problem is, I don't understand anything at all about software licensing. Tried to go to http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html but still haven't got the grasp of it.

The thing is I want to:
1. Showcasing my revamping service there.

2. Distribute free Zen-Cart mods on my website (and also upload them on Zen-Cart download page).
3. And also sell some Zen-Cart mods.For number 1 and 2 there is definitely no problem, but for number 3, what license can I use for this? Can I just use GNU license and sell the script?

I wrote this on my website:
"All of the modules here are licensed under GNU license so you can change any part of the modules to suit your system needs. The purchases you made entitles you to future bugfixes and versions, plus aiding me in developing better module."

Is my understanding about GNU correct in that sentence?

And I cannot just make the mods free either, since I have put too much effort creating those (It was a month full of sleepless nights), and I don't want to feel that my work wasn't rewarding for me.

Can anybody help?

Thank you,

Jay

The problem with selling modules is the GNU/GPL license gives the end user the right to modify and redistribute the modules - so anyone you sell to has the right to resell at a lesser price or to give away the code for free.

Kim:

The problem with selling modules is the GNU/GPL license gives the end user the right to modify and redistribute the modules - so anyone you sell to has the right to resell at a lesser price or to give away the code for free.

Ahck... I understand now. So maybe a workaround to this matter is instead of selling the modules, I can sell the service to the modules? Say installation method, support ticket, and module implementation service?

Thanks for the reply Kim, thats really helpful, I wish I had asked sooner before I launched my website...

I can sell the service to the modules? Say installation method, support ticket, and module implementation service?

Yes, you can do that as long as the modules are available without the extras.

One of the things to keep in mind is that the GPL is "viral" - code written to interact with GPLed code should be GPL too.

Umm one more thing, what if I say "This module is GNU/GPL license but is copyrighted under me" do people still have the rights to resell? (I don't mind if they only modify the code to suit their needs, or giving enhancement suggestion to me)

Certainly selling your service to implement the mods would work, as long as the cost is perceived as reasonable and the service as useful by your potential customers.

Rather than try to prevent redistribution of your mods which you can't do, legally or practically, you might take the approach of making it easy to make a modest (possibly variable?) "donation" when downloading, and assume that this market will on average want to support your efforts. The more useful your work, the more likely that is to succeed.
If you have 1000 downloads in a period of time and an average donation of $1, that is $1000... for that item.
Good luck to you!

Yes, I think you guys are right.

I think now I will close the link to premium products at the moment and figure out & changing the way to sell them.

Right now I need to figure out how much is "modest", can you help giving suggestion? :)

Oh and another issue is you know that when a customer purchase a module, I ask them to post up their web address, which is compulsory upon downloading a premium module, the reason I was doing this was to make it easier for me to track how many websites have installed my module, and for authorisation when they need a support with this module on their website.

But after a while I think that may not be important, what do you think. Do you think people will hesitate to post up their domain name?

I'm sure some will hesitate, and some may not know, or may be working on development addresses that will change when live.

Posing the url request as authorizing them to seek support may improve the general perception.
"If you give your address, I will assist you with any problems that arise..."

gjh42:

I'm sure some will hesitate, and some may not know, or may be working on development addresses that will change when live.

Posing the url request as authorizing them to seek support may improve the general perception.
"If you give your address, I will assist you with any problems that arise..."

Thank you, this leads me to think that maybe its better to leave the textbox there, but not making it compulsory.

Thanks for your help gjh42

Hi,

I don't think I can be bothered to think about this for too long, so I think I would just post up my customers' rights when they purchase the module. And since its GNU/GPL, I also explain them that the purchases they made are not for the modules, instead they are for my services attached on the module.

With this, I also dropped the price so they're only entitled to the service costs instead of the modules themselves.

check my homepage for more detail on this matter.

Wait, maybe I wasn't being that clear.

I mean, I can just change the attributes of the products to show how you can select for the upgrade / support subscription, donation, and everything else, but that needs more time to do that, something I don't really have right now.

Dang forgot to ask the important question, sorry for the cluttered message, so do you think this way it conforms to GNU/GPL license?

cheers

jaycode:

Umm one more thing, what if I say "This module is GNU/GPL license but is copyrighted under me" do people still have the rights to resell?

Yes they have the right to resell, sell modified versions, distribute for free etc. The other thing to remember is, as Kim said, the GPL is "viral" so any mod that interacts with Zen Cart code can only be distributed under the GPL. You do not have to distribute your work but if you do then it must be GPL. There are a few unscrupulous people who ignore this though.

The best business model is to ask for donations and/or sell services based around Zen Cart rather than trying to sell parts of it.

If you want to distribute any mods then it is best to put them for download in the Zen Cart downloads section. People will inevitably find their way to the Zen Cart forum to ask for help and if the mod is not available for download then people here cannot help them.

If you do want to charge for support then you need to provide a mechanism by which you can support people away from the Zen Cart forum. Providing paid support via the Zen Cart forum which is provided to you for free is a bit cheeky. People do it though. :frusty:

Regards,
Christian.

jaycode:

Dang forgot to ask the important question, sorry for the cluttered message, so do you think this way it conforms to GNU/GPL license?

I think so. Below is an extract from the GNU FAQ v2 which might make it clearer...

Does the GPL allow me to sell copies of the program for money?
Yes, the GPL allows everyone to do this. The right to sell copies is part of the definition of free software. Except in one special situation, there is no limit on what price you can charge. (The one exception is the required written offer to provide source code that must accompany binary-only release.)**

Does the GPL allow me to charge a fee for downloading the program from my site?**
Yes. You can charge any fee you wish for distributing a copy of the program. If you distribute binaries by download, you must provide "equivalent access" to download the source--therefore, the fee to download source may not be greater than the fee to download the binary.**

Does the GPL allow me to require that anyone who receives the software must pay me a fee and/or notify me?**
No. In fact, a requirement like that would make the program non-free. If people have to pay when they get a copy of a program, or if they have to notify anyone in particular, then the program is not free. See the definition of free software. The GPL is a free software license, and therefore it permits people to use and even redistribute the software without being required to pay anyone a fee for doing so.
**
If I distribute GPL'd software for a fee, am I required to also make it available to the public without a charge?**
No. However, if someone pays your fee and gets a copy, the GPL gives them the freedom to release it to the public, with or without a fee. For example, someone could pay your fee, and then put her copy on a web site for the general public.Regards,
Christian.

CJPinder:

Yes they have the right to resell, sell modified versions, distribute for free etc. The other thing to remember is, as Kim said, the GPL is "viral" so any mod that interacts with Zen Cart code can only be distributed under the GPL. You do not have to distribute your work but if you do then it must be GPL. There are a few unscrupulous people who ignore this though.

Exactly. The thing is, they (or should I say, we) used part of Zen-Cart's code, which was given free to us. It feels a bit weird to claim our work as entirely ours that way.

But on the other hand, our work makes some Zen-Cart developers' life way easier, and those few developers might tell other people about Zen-Cart, and in long run it would be good for all parties.

I'd say release the code, but don't claim as your own. Let your customer's moral decide what they want to do with them.

CJPinder:

If you do want to charge for support then you need to provide a mechanism by which you can support people away from the Zen Cart forum. Providing paid support via the Zen Cart forum which is provided to you for free is a bit cheeky. People do it though. :frusty:

Yeap, that problem has been solved on most Zen-Cart module developer I guess. Well as in my case I also provide them with a support forum.

CJPinder:

I think so. Below is an extract from the GNU FAQ v2 which might make it clearer...

Great post, thanks a lot Christian. Then I'll refine my quotes:

Release the code, charge whatever you think worth your effort, but don't claim as your own. Let your customer's moral decide what they want to do with them.

This post has been really helpful in making up my decision. These are what I changed on my site along the way:

1. I now release ALL my modules under GNU/GPL license, and instead of restricting people from distributing the code (or, trying to), I let them do that, but telling them that these code will be out of my support, development & upgrade line.
2. Another way I use to discourage people from re-distribute the code is by NOT giving them incentives to do so. So I dropped the prices of the module to an amount I believe most developers wouldn't hesitate to re-purchase from my website. Maybe cheaper price for repetitive purchases?
3. And well, of course, donation to Zen-Cart for each module I sell.Thanks Kim, gjh42, and CJPinder for all your help and insights, I wish all the best for all of you.

Cheers,

Jay

Oh and selling the modules is not my main business anyway... I mainly just re-develop ppl websites, and thats it, so I don't really hope too much on it, just for the good feeling of having a working e-commerce website heheh...

Hey, I'm back!

Okay I have to admit, I was on the dark side when deciding to sell my modules.

But now I am changing my course.

Turns out it is way better this way. More people are giving feedbacks to my modules and it's just getting better with each of them. Plus, it feels really good to be able to contribute something to the community :D

Feel free to try around the modules on my website! I hope you will like it. I also like the folders structure suggested by a client.

Thanks again guys!