Image Scaling

discoverytdi:

My thoughts exactly I used IH3 on my old site and worked fine. I started following this after I read the conversation between you both on that thread and thought it might be worth a look, might be miss reading this but though it would be an alternative to IH3 for those who don't need all the functionality of IH3.
Depends on what you mean by "all the functionality of IH3". Both add-ons at the end will do one thing that IMHO is the most important part of an image management module.. Optimize your images, and ease the process of adding additional images.. These will be the most important reasons to use this add-on or IH3.. In the end, once the differences are clear, then it's all about choice..

nods in agreement :yes:

Becoming a catchphrase now.

For the user, the core functionality should be pretty similar. With the exception of the image hover thingy which I dislike and won't put in as part of the core just because. Actually, for the store owner that is up and running I don't think there will be too much difference. Both will run quite transparently. Install for the user is easier at the moment with Image Scaler but I am sure that this will change when IH4 is released.

Also for the user, I think that the additional image uploader is simpler to understand. Meanwhile, the inclusion of 'variants' which allow the replacement of any scaled image with a alternate image is probably a bit more powerful than the way IH works. There are also a few unexpected strengths in that system. For instance the ability to have product listing images that are different sizes for different products.

For the developer and the person who is interested in the code I'd say that the code and methods of Image Scaler are a bit simpler, but I would wouldn't I? The aim all the way through is to strip down to the bare necessities and I am really going to try and keep it that way. Most of the 10 or so files in the present version actually have to do with the 'clean-up' which although not a core function seemed like a really good idea. As I have said before I don't think that the core module should do anything other than scaling images and serving scaled images.

Extra Thoughts:
Having said that about the image hover thingy I have a client who loves it so am in the process of making a version of that anyway. The most recent version of image scaler contains a few bits and pieces that are aimed in making further image manipulation modules easier. The main thing really is that the image paths that are used on a specific page are stored into an array so that they can be used later on. For in the case of the horrible image hover thingy that means that the larger version of the images can be preloaded in the footer. This might also be helpful for lots of other jQuery niceness like zoom features, lightboxes, anything that needs the images used but not necessarily visible on the first load of the page.

@bn

That all seems to work just fine, doesn't it? Ine thing that I am seeing is how long it takes to build a 'All Products' list in the product picker. Hmmm, I thought all products was a good idea but now not so sure for large shops. Need to think about that.

Yes, I guess I do need to add a 'delete all the scaled images button' . I just was avoiding it for my own reasons but I can see that it would be of use in your situation. And it obviously is a good functionality.

If a new image is uploaded to a product two things may happen as it stands:
-- if the image name is the same ( which is hard to do through admin ) the scaled images will still be used as they were before the new image was uploaded.
-- if the image name is different then the scaled images will not be deleted but new scaled images will be created. The orphaned images should be deleted by clean-up at some point depending on your settings.

I hadn't thought too much about a situation were lots of new images are ftped onto the server with the same names as existing images. In that situation the new 'delete all scaled images button' is going to come to the rescue :smile:

yes the all products was a bit slow, imagehandler just defaults to first category,

also maybe a box to type in if you know the model of the image/product you want to change, so type in model number hit display this product

bryan

Good thoughts.

Probably should be model number and/or id.

nods in agreement is indeed gonna become a catchphrase.. :laugh: So BACK AT CHA!!! :laugh:

I personally HATE the image hover feature in IH3.. It is NOT the reason to use IH3 AT ALL.. It's NOT the primary purpose of IH3.. yet a GOOD majority of the support questions for IH3 are dealing with that stupid a$$ed (and ultimately useless IMHO) feature.. And let me be clear why I hate it before folks jump to defend it with the whiny "but I like the image hover feature" pleas..

It's is an image EFFECT which has NOTHING to do with image management. It IMHO should have been spun off into a separate mod.. I would personally like to see it NOT be a part of the v1.5 compatible version of IH3..

Now that said, watermarking could also be considered an image effect too (I don't necessarily agree with this, but whatever), but IMHO it's a far more USEFUL image effect because it deals more with image management (protection of images) than than adding some silly hover effect which ultimately doesn't add any real value to the store images.

Testing FINALLY today.. I spent yesterday pulling my hair out updating Ty Package Tracker..

mumbles to herself stupid admin page registration.. Grrrrrrrrr..:censored::frusty::censored::frusty:

niccol:

nods in agreement :yes:

Becoming a catchphrase now.

For the user, the core functionality should be pretty similar. With the exception of the image hover thingy which I dislike and won't put in as part of the core just because. Actually, for the store owner that is up and running I don't think there will be too much difference. Both will run quite transparently. Install for the user is easier at the moment with Image Scaler but I am sure that this will change when IH4 is released.

Also for the user, I think that the additional image uploader is simpler to understand. Meanwhile, the inclusion of 'variants' which allow the replacement of any scaled image with a alternate image is probably a bit more powerful than the way IH works. There are also a few unexpected strengths in that system. For instance the ability to have product listing images that are different sizes for different products.

For the developer and the person who is interested in the code I'd say that the code and methods of Image Scaler are a bit simpler, but I would wouldn't I? The aim all the way through is to strip down to the bare necessities and I am really going to try and keep it that way. Most of the 10 or so files in the present version actually have to do with the 'clean-up' which although not a core function seemed like a really good idea. As I have said before I don't think that the core module should do anything other than scaling images and serving scaled images.

Extra Thoughts:
Having said that about the image hover thingy I have a client who loves it so am in the process of making a version of that anyway. The most recent version of image scaler contains a few bits and pieces that are aimed in making further image manipulation modules easier. The main thing really is that the image paths that are used on a specific page are stored into an array so that they can be used later on. For in the case of the horrible image hover thingy that means that the larger version of the images can be preloaded in the footer. This might also be helpful for lots of other jQuery niceness like zoom features, lightboxes, anything that needs the images used but not necessarily visible on the first load of the page.

DivaVocals:

nods in agreement is indeed gonna become a catchphrase.. :laugh: So BACK AT CHA!!! :laugh:

I personally HATE the image hover feature in IH3.. It is NOT the reason to use IH3 AT ALL.. It's NOT the primary purpose of IH3.. yet a GOOD majority of the support questions for IH3 are dealing with that stupid a$$ed (and ultimately useless IMHO) feature.. And let me be clear why I hate it before folks jump to defend it with the whiny "but I like the image hover feature" pleas..

It's is an image EFFECT which has NOTHING to do with image management. It IMHO should have been spun off into a separate mod.. I would personally like to see it NOT be a part of the v1.5 compatible version of IH3..

Now that said, watermarking could also be considered an image effect too (I don't necessarily agree with this, but whatever), but IMHO it's a far more USEFUL image effect because it deals more with image management (protection of images) than than adding some silly hover effect which ultimately doesn't add any real value to the store images.

Testing FINALLY today.. I spent yesterday pulling my hair out updating Ty Package Tracker..

mumbles to herself stupid admin page registration.. Grrrrrrrrr..:censored::frusty::censored::frusty:

that's what I meant by functionality IH was trying to be the ms office of zencart image handling and the hover used to drive me nuts

discoverytdi:

that's what I meant by functionality IH was trying to be the ms office of zencart image handling and the hover used to drive me nutsWrong analogy actually:blush:, but that's a whole 'nother discussion (and quite off topic for this thread)

FYI.. any IH3 feature you didn't want to use (including the hover) was easy enough to turn off.. I hardly ever use the hover for any client site anymore.. It's a non value added feature.

Again, in the end both add-ons will have almost the same features/benefits that are in my opinion a MUST HAVE in any image management add-on (image optimization and resizing). Niccol wants to accomplish this with a smaller code footprint than the current available image management options (IH3 and Image Manager).

Not having image hover by itself won't make IH3 lighter in terms of the number of lines of code which comprise IH3.. Let me put this another way.. What I get niccol is trying to accomplish is image management using fewer lines of code than current available options (IH3 and Image Manager). She also wants to eliminate non image management/optimization features (image hover) and allow more sizing options all without sacrificing image quality..

It's not about better or worse, it's about CHOICES.. I always see folks who like to say Image Manager is better than IH3 or vice versa.. and IMHO that's a silly discussion.. It's not that one is better than the other.. They are both GOOD options depending on what's important to you.. If the options offered by Image Manager more closely match your needs, then that's the add-on you should choose.. Same will hold true with niccols add-on.. It's just another choice.. Use the option that matches you needs. Image hover is NOT the reason to use (or not to use) an image management add-on.. There will be much more compelling reasons to use niccols add-on than whether or not it includes image hover.. (to tell you the truth image hover may be eliminated from IH3's v1.5 compatible version)

Okay I installed this, and maybe I am not fully understanding how to use this, but am not seeing scaled images at all..

I see a "scaled" and "originals" folder in my images folder.. and initially only a "categories" folder was inside the "scaled" folder. After I uploaded an additional image, then the "products" folder appeared in the "scaled" folder.

So I need to get some understanding about what I should "see" happening..

niccol:

Install for the user is easier at the moment with Image Scaler but I am sure that this will change when IH4 is released.I think easier is relative since what makes this install easier is the fact that there is only ONE core file change. This one change doesn't necessarily require a file comparison since application_bottom.php is RARELY modified by other add-ons. In comparison to IH3, the part of the install that usually causes issues for end users is the modification of core files, and merging those changes in with an exiting store.. However, this "issue" exists for MANY other mods, and is not unique to IH3. So though the image scaler improves the install experience, it is one of the few admin mods that touches few enough core files to help make this install easier. Not all mods are built as independently..

niccol:

Also for the user, I think that the additional image uploader is simpler to understand.nods in agreement

niccol:

** Meanwhile, the inclusion of 'variants' which allow the replacement of any scaled image with a alternate image is probably a bit more powerful than the way IH works. **

There are also a few unexpected strengths in that system. For instance the ability to have product listing images that are different sizes for different products.
So these features are what I am not clearly seeing.. what am I missing here??

hi,
assuming you switched it on in configuration > imagescaler > imagescaler enabled = true you should see scaled images depending on the image sizes you have set in your images settings

so go here

http://catchagrip.co.uk/imagescale/

and you will see it in action, if you click into a product and go to large size of image this is the image size i have uploaded, all the other images are created by imagescaler, these images are all crisp and correct size, if this module isnt installed you see a large image resized to the dimension and it isnt as crisp and is a lot bigger in download size

then once you have it enable go to catalog > image management

and there you will have all the information on scaled images etc

hope this helps

bryan

Thanks Bryan,

That is definitely the first thing to check, Diva. The module has two admin settings. One to create scaled images and one to serve the scaled images. To see scaled images on a new install you'd have to have both of those set to true.

It needs to be creating scaled images from your images and it needs to be serving them to the browser.

It will only create scaled version if they are requested by a user. Same as IH. So, to see stuff start to be scaled you need to navigate to a page where the image is used.

At that point you should be able to see that the source of the image is altered to the scaled version.

You should also be able to go to admin>>image management and see the scaled images start to appear in the panels. There is now a hide/show button for this so if you want to see them you'll need to click 'show scaled images' . This is just here because a whole lot of users don't need to see the scaled images the whole time and it just makes the page more confusing.

Obviously if you are not seeing that at all then we are in the process of finding an issue and need to investigate a bit further :-)

Yes, I agree with everything that you say about install. I am not knocking Image handler. You are right that there are good reasons why the install is more complex due to the overwrite of core files. That and the fact that the sql statements are run automatically in Image Scaler do actually result in an easier install at the moment. All people need to do is upload some files and access admin. The same can't actually be said for IH at the moment.

niccol:

Thanks Bryan,

That is definitely the first thing to check, Diva. The module has two admin settings. One to create scaled images and one to serve the scaled images. To see scaled images on a new install you'd have to have both of those set to true.

It needs to be creating scaled images from your images and it needs to be serving them to the browser.

It will only create scaled version if they are requested by a user. Same as IH. So, to see stuff start to be scaled you need to navigate to a page where the image is used.

At that point you should be able to see that the source of the image is altered to the scaled version.

You should also be able to go to admin>>image management and see the scaled images start to appear in the panels. There is now a hide/show button for this so if you want to see them you'll need to click 'show scaled images' . This is just here because a whole lot of users don't need to see the scaled images the whole time and it just makes the page more confusing.

Obviously if you are not seeing that at all then we are in the process of finding an issue and need to investigate a bit further :-)I've got it turned on, and set to serve scaled images.. I knew that much..:laugh: However, as I stated I am still not seeing scaled images in the "scaled" images folder, hence no scaled images being served up from the site either.. Vanilla Zen Cart v1.5 install. Only Ty Package Tracker installed.. Which should not interfere with Image Scaler at all.. So what's next on the troubleshooting to do list??:smile:

niccol:

Yes, I agree with everything that you say about install. I am not knocking Image handler. You are right that there are good reasons why the install is more complex due to the overwrite of core files. That and the fact that the sql statements are run automatically in Image Scaler do actually result in an easier install at the moment. All people need to do is upload some files and access admin. The same can't actually be said for IH at the moment.I know you are not..:smile: I just wanted to make sure it's clear to those following this discussion that IH3l is NOT the only Zen Cart add-on in which shopowners run into install difficulties due to having to deal with merging core files which have been updated. It is true that your mod is loads easier to install because of the automatic database update and the fact that no core files are overwritten.. I just want to make sure it's clear that IH3's install is no more or less difficult than many other add-ons which overwrite core files.. This way folks are TRULY comparing apples to apples.. ya know??:smile:

@Diva

Can I have a look at the site first? Just the front end. If you can email me the URL that would be great.

After that I'll send you a version that will output a bit more information.

Thanks. Finding things now is good :smile:

@diva

One other thing that I do differently to IH ( I think ) is that Image Scaler requires that both width and height are set.

If you want to limit just by height then set a very large width. And vice versa.

I wonder whether your site has either width or height not set or set to zero. In that case image scaler will just bypass the scaling.

niccol:

@diva

One other thing that I do differently to IH ( I think ) is that Image Scaler requires that both width and height are set.

If you want to limit just by height then set a very large width. And vice versa.

I wonder whether your site has either width or height not set or set to zero. In that case image scaler will just bypass the scaling.
That is probably the issue... Since I have proportional sizing on, I leave the width empty.. Let me change that and report back.. you will need to make that little difference clear in the user docs..

Sure will :smile: I only remembered that I had done that when I went back to the code to make a fault reporting version for you.

Maybe I will change it but it kind of solves a lot of division by zero potential errors if one odes it that way around.

Image Scaler requires that both width and height are set.

If you want to limit just by height then set a very large width. And vice versa. It sounds like you have the same ability to limit by width or height only, except that you do it in the opposite way to standard Zen Cart (by using a large dimension instead of using 0 for unlimited dimension). How difficult would it be to allow a "0" or null setting, and convert it for use to arbitrarily big? This would keep behavior as expected and ease user interaction.

Glenn,

For sure. I understand what you are saying. The answer is that it is not that difficult. As I say the reason it is that way around is twofold. One it avoids the zero divide nightmare right from the start. The second is that it is just the way my mind works I guess.

The scaling is always done proportionally. By which I mean that the aspect ratio of the image remains the same. I just can't see the point of squishing or stretching an image into a space and distorting the image to do so. The scaling basically 'fits it into a box' so if the target sizes are 300 by 300 the resulting image will fit in that box. It might be 300 wide . It may be 300 high. But neither dimension will be larger that 300. (I know you personally understand this but just adding info to the thread)

With that in mind it doesn't sit right with me to give certain figures, in this case zero, a 'special' meaning. So zero actually means limitless. Especially as the functionality does not need it. But I know that that is the IH way so perhaps it is a good thing to do just for compatibility's sake as people are so used to it.

gjh42:

It sounds like you have the same ability to limit by width or height only, except that you do it in the opposite way to standard Zen Cart (by using a large dimension instead of using 0 for unlimited dimension). **How difficult would it be to allow a "0" or null setting, and convert it for use to arbitrarily big? This would keep behavior as expected and ease user interaction.**I do have to agree with this.. Whether or not I install Image Handler, I have always setup my shop images by setting the width and let the proportional sizing options in Zen Cart take care of the height by leaving the value null. As this is default Zen Cart behavior, perhaps the Image Scaler should not "re-invent" default behavior. Would make user adoption/acceptance a lot easier.

OK. Good points. :cool:

Next version will treat 0 as a 'do not use dimension this to scale' setting.

Thanks guys. It is always interesting to find out how much one's own interpretation is governed by the way that one normally works in one's own little universe.