Digital Seller? New 2015 EU Digital VAT Affects You

wilt:

Hi,

So I have started putting together a document at https://confluence.zen-cart.com/display/PUBDOC/EU+Digital+Goods+VAT

I've also created an initial github repository at https://github.com/zcwilt/eu-digital-vat

I doubt very much that we will get anything useful coded before 1st January :(

I'm wondering if those subscribed to this thread would be interested in doing a join.me conference, sometime between the 27th to the 31st, to look at priorities.

I would like to join

I have not sold digital items. I was thinking about it. Then I heard about this boondoggle of a scheme and thought I could ignore. But now, with the new information that the EU will extend the VAT collection to physical goods in 2016 I'm getting scared.

It seems that the technical details of working out which country and what VAT rate are solvable eventually but that data collection and retention are sticky. Ten years you've got to keep the data.

I've found a software company, taxamo.com, that is providing cart solutions but not for Zencart. I am querying them to see if ZC is on their list.

If not, perhaps a small group of Zencart users could pool their resources and get these guys to make a module.

Hi.

I've seen people mention in a few places that the scheme may be extended to physical goods in 2016. However I have never found a single 'official' announcement that this is the case.

linniedarling:

I have not sold digital items. I was thinking about it. Then I heard about this boondoggle of a scheme and thought I could ignore. But now, with the new information that the EU will extend the VAT collection to physical goods in 2016 I'm getting scared.

Hi.

As far as I know, Taxamo do not have a Zen Cart integration.
I'm currently waiting an email from their Head of Business Development, to set up a call to discuss options.

linniedarling:

I've found a software company, taxamo.com, that is providing cart solutions but not for Zencart. I am querying them to see if ZC is on their list.

HI.

At the moment, the best days for me would be either the 29th or 30th December, between 6-8pm GMT.

If others are interested, please let me know your preferred date/time and your timezone.

Thanks.

Design75:

I would like to join

Thank you Wilt. I contacted them and am still waiting on their answer as to when they would have ZC integration. Anything that would speed things up is greatly appreciated!

wilt:

HI.

At the moment, the best days for me would be either the 29th or 30th December, between 6-8pm GMT.

If others are interested, please let me know your preferred date/time and your timezone.

Thanks.

Those days/times are fine for me. What are we going to use for the confernce? (Skype / phone)

Zen Cart has a join.me account, so will probably use that.

Design75:

Those days/times are fine for me. What are we going to use for the confernce? (Skype / phone)

**EU MERCHANTS: **
Petition you may want to sign:
https://www.change.org/p/pierre-moscovici-a-unilateral-suspension-of-the-introduction-of-the-new-eu-vat-laws-for-micro-businesses-and-sole-traders

US MERCHANTS:
This also affects US merchants who want to sell to customers in any EU countries.
So, it is probably in your best interests to sign this petition in order to help get the EU countries to listen to merchants across the pond too!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/call-european-commission-suspend-introduction-new-eu-vat-laws-micro-businesses/VH1P82X0

For those who don't understand VAT MOSS here's a great analogy to explain it: http://hannahkate.net/hannahs-bananas-a-vatmoss-analogy/

Ajeh:

**EU MERCHANTS: **
Petition you may want to sign:
https://www.change.org/p/pierre-moscovici-a-unilateral-suspension-of-the-introduction-of-the-new-eu-vat-laws-for-micro-businesses-and-sole-traders

US MERCHANTS:
This also affects US merchants who want to sell to customers in any EU countries.
So, it is probably in your best interests to sign this petition in order to help get the EU countries to listen to merchants across the pond too!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/call-european-commission-suspend-introduction-new-eu-vat-laws-micro-businesses/VH1P82X0
Nice one, Ajeh. Thanks for the links.

Hi everyone. I am the one who started this whole discussion but because I was perhaps a bit early with this new VAT concept and not many understoof the implications for outside-to-inside EU sellers, not many replies were received. Thank you that this is now being noticed and hopefully it can be resolved!
I live in South Africa and have downloadable digital products, so obviously this has a serious affect on my business. At the moment, the future looks like shop closure. This is what I have already investigated.

1. Registering in the UK for VATMOSS is not an option for me.
2. I tried setting up PayPal so I can block all sales to the EU, but PP - after various emails back and forth - say this option is not available for South African PP.
3. I am certainly not a ZC boffin, and normally have to try and find someone in this country who knows ZC, can come to my PC at home, and pay them to come and do the changes for me. It took me 4 months to eventually find a young man who knew what ZC is!
4. IDEALLY now with this new VAT mess, I would like to set up my shop so that the system recognises a customer from a EU member country, and instead of the customer being taken directly to the clickable download link after payment via PP, I could send an email with the product attached. This would comply then with the "human intervention" that will avoid the VAT. Seems like we are going backwards in the technology though! Is this doable without too much stress on this old lady? LOL. I pulled down a PayPal report of all the countries I have sold to in the last 2 years, and unfortunately some people do NOT enter their address - not sure how they got around that as it is compulsory, so this is already one problem. PP does send me the IP addresses in each invoice though, but I understand that IP address alone is not sufficient proof of residence. My only option left then is to separate EU customers from the rest of the world, and hopefully add new ones as they also come on board e.g. Canada and Japan now hinting the same.

See if this is what you had in mind.

http://www.zen-cart.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=1933

Offering a manual email option can be an alternate attribute selectable if an EU ip address is detected.

Yes this is what I had in mind thanks.

I have one more question however related to this plugin. Does it require me to be able to click the country off in a list? Apparently this option is NOT available for South Africa as I emailed them and then held a telephonic discussion with them, as I could not see a list of countries that people in the US and Canada are seeing.

The plugin has a PHP define statement that includes a list of to-be-excluded countries; any further questions should be directed to the plugin's support thread: http://www.zen-cart.com/showthread.php?215524-Restrict-Digital-Downloads-Support-Thread

wilt:

Zen Cart has a join.me account, so will probably use that.

Any update on this meeting, I only just saw this but would be interested to see what's in discussion.

However, announced today: we also have a bit of breathing space - we can use our payment processor info as proof until June 2015 giving us time to sort out the collection of evidence issues.

Support for MOSS registered micro-businesses until 30 June 2015
UK micro-businesses that are below the current UK VAT registration threshold, and who register for the VAT Mini One Stop Shop (MOSS) may, until 30 June 2015, base their ‘customer location’ VAT taxation and accounting decisions on information provided to them by their payment service provider. This means the business need not require further information to be supplied by the customer. As payment service providers already collect and hold a minimum of 2 pieces of information about the member state where the customer usually resides, the transitional period, until 30 June 2015, will give micro-businesses additional time to adapt their websites to meet the new data collection requirements. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers/vat-businesses-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers#support-for-moss-registered-micro-businesses-until-30-june-2015

Hi.

Given there are a couple of people interested, is tomorrow at 7:00 gmt ok.I'll set up a join.me conference if thats ok.

Hi

Also note, I have a meeting on Friday with head of Business Development at Taxamo to discuss integration etc.
http://www.taxamo.com/

Hi,

Was this from HMRC ?

enlightened:

However, announced today: we also have a bit of breathing space - we can use our payment processor info as proof until June 2015 giving us time to sort out the collection of evidence issues.

Support for MOSS registered micro-businesses until 30 June 2015
UK micro-businesses that are below the current UK VAT registration threshold, and who register for the VAT Mini One Stop Shop (MOSS) may, until 30 June 2015, base their ‘customer location’ VAT taxation and accounting decisions on information provided to them by their payment service provider. This means the business need not require further information to be supplied by the customer. As payment service providers already collect and hold a minimum of 2 pieces of information about the member state where the customer usually resides, the transitional period, until 30 June 2015, will give micro-businesses additional time to adapt their websites to meet the new data collection requirements. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers/vat-businesses-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers#support-for-moss-registered-micro-businesses-until-30-june-2015

Hi.

Have scheduled a join.me meeting

https://join.me/994-880-642

This is for tomorrow Jan 30th at 7:00 gmt.
Would appreciate it if you are interested in attending meeting to ping here so I know how many to expect, and whether to wait before getting started.