Serious Delay Loading Pages

I too have struggled with long delays while loading cart pages on http://groovix.com/store/ for the past year. I was on dreamhost, but moved over to sashbox 4 months ago.

At first, everything on sashbox seemed fast. Now, for the past 2 months at least, it takes about 10 seconds to load an average page. Everything on the sashbox server seems slow, even editing files in vi. Sometimes things are fast, but then other times load times are abysmal, taking over 15 seconds measured with time wget. It seems that the server is just overloaded at some times of the day, but since they won't let you check server load from the command line, I can't be sure.

I have contacted their support twice about this, with absolutely no response. I see the "hosted by sashbox" message on zen-cart.com, but it looks like zen-cart.com is really hosted on theplanet, which is dedicated servers:
PING zen-cart.com (70.87.51.220) ... from dc.33.5746.static.theplanet.com

I though that a "zen-cart friendly" host would at least respond to my pleas for help, if even to say "give us $100 and we'll look into it what you set up wrong to make it slow". I can't rule out that its something with my configuration that is slowing it down, but I've tried many tips including different caching methods and nothing seems to help.

I really didn't want to go to a $100+/mo dedicated server, but is that what it takes to get decent performance (<5 seconds to load a page?)
What other experiences with "certified" zen-cart hosts have people had?
I don't mind paying a little more for consistent decent performance and support that answers their customers.

Well, I'm on sashbox now and am happy so far.

I just took a quick look at your site, and non-product pages appear nice and fast, but when I pulled up a computer item with a bunch of sttributes asigned to it, it was rather slow, but you do have a lot of attributes there. I understand this to be a normal thing to slow Zen a lot.

When I pulled up a software item that had no attributes, you were once again quick loading.

I'm not sure this has anything to do with the server, but more to do with the current version of Zen dealing with the attributes. I'll let someone else who knows more then I pipe up though..

Sashbox has been pretty quick to my email questions so far. Maybe once I get beyond the warranty period they will blow me off. Even if they do, still much better then Dream(less)host.

-Wayne

Today everything is loading pretty fast. What took 15 seconds two days ago just took <5 seconds to load now. Responsiveness in a shell is very good right now too. Because it can be so much faster on a good day, I know >15 second load times are not acceptable for a product just because it has 10 attributes.

Yes, it is definitely database queries that are slowing things down, and general html performance is great. However, since sashbox seems to run the sql server on the same machine as the server (sql connects to localhost) I wonder if their sql performance can be consistently fast. Most things I've read highly recommend the sql server being a different machine from the web host, but obviously a lightly loaded server running both is better than a separate overloaded (dreamhost) sql server.

Obviously these hosting companies with <$20/month plans cannot give performance or customer service like dedicated server companies, but if sashbox wants to call itself "zen certified" it should at least offer some extra fee options to guarantee decent sql performance and acknowledge customer issues within 24 hours.

I have quite a few customers with sashbox ... and many have a lot of attributes with no issues ...

Speed time on 40 to 80+ attributes per product: Parse Time: 0.624 to 2.1 seconds

I am wondering if you are needing some cleanup on indexes ... or if there is something your template has changed etc.

I looked at your site ... and while I would recommend fixing your Categories and Products correctly first ... I would then look to see if the template is influencing the speed/code ... and then look into the indexes as they do make the world of differences ...

While you do not have a ton of products, you do have a lot of Attributes where your speed slows down ... however, I am not seeing why it would slow this dramatically ...

But you mentioned you have something wrong with some code on dropdowns etc.

Perhaps this is causing more issues ...

Thanks for the help Linda, I did buy the zen cart team a few cups of coffee today. I did some searching, but can you give a link to some more information on how to clean up zen cart mysql indexes? Also, what do you mean by "fixing your Categories and Products correctly" ?

I have spent the last few hours experimenting, and found one consistent thing: inconsistency. With my template or the default, I saw numbers on
http://groovix.com/storetest/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=32
ranging from PT=3.8 to PT=23 and QT=0.69 to QT=12.8
Here are the averages:
Parse Time: 9 - Number of Queries: 2804 - Query Time: 3

BUT, the results vary widely and are changing over time, presumably as server load changes. So, you can do 5 loads in a row that are lighting fast, and then later on the page page is dog slow 5 times in a row.

I investigated as much as I could about the server, and it appears that while memory may be maxed out, the cpu loads are relatively low, ranging from 35-60% usage. It seems that the mysql server is always using only 31.1% of just one cpu.

I think what we need here are some benchmarks. I did a completely fresh install of zen cart at http://groovix.com/storetest2/
and noted the parse and query times for the main page. Obviously it could be sped up by removing category counts, etc, but with all the defaults I'm seeing on average:
Parse Time: 8 - Number of Queries: 833 - Query Time: 7
with the best numbers being PT=0.5, QT=0.28 and the worst PT=9, QT=8, so under the right circumstances things are very fast and I don't think the slow load times have to do with my configuration.

Anyone else hosting with sashbox, can you turn on the Parse time display and give a pointer to your site so we can get some relative performance measurements?

Other hosting providers: can you give some average parse/query times
for a default 1.3.0.2 zen cart install with the product samples loaded?

In order for a hosting provider to be "zen cart certified" they should have to meet an average minimum speed for a default cart configuration. What is a reasonable speed? That may vary depending on the cost of the hosting plan, but in my opinion a page with 10 options taking over 10 seconds to load is unacceptable.

Could you post your Session Settings?

You appear to have some that may be incorrect ...

As to your indexes ... I'd really have to look at your database tables and take the time to set this up ideally for you ...

Have you been manipulating your tables in your Mysql database at all? I had a performance issue right after transfering all my data from my old Cube Cart installation, and it turned out to be that fact that the tables I'd edited didn't have an index or primary key defined.

You may want to skim through your Products and Options tables with phpAdmin to ensure everythings configured right.

Ajeh: I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but here are the Configuration->Sessions settings from the zen cart admin page:

Sessions
Title Value Action
Session Directory /home/jbpardee/public_html/store/cache
Cookie Domain True Info
Force Cookie Use False Info
Check SSL Session ID False Info
Check User Agent False Info
Check IP Address False Info
Prevent Spider Sessions True Info
Recreate Session False Info
IP to Host Conversion Status true Info

CFE:I have not hand manipulated any tables. drbyte offerred to look through my database so maybe he'll find something there.

I am thinking some of the speed issue will result in missing indexes on your tables that DrByte should hopefully be able to get back on track ...

But, the bulk of the issue is the attributes ...

If you are not using a good server configuration ... you will run like a dog with a server that is not designed to give you optimal MySQL settings ...

If you were to go to phpMyAdmin and look at the products_attributes table ... then do a search for products_id 23 ... how many records are found?

I believe that blaming the indexing in not the issue, the indexing should be taken care of in the database installation, their should be no reason to alter it afterwards, if thats the case the initial installation of the zencart db is wrong.

I have looked hard at the slow loading pages, Linda, i did send you a copy of the database from the glasses site, I said in that email that i believe its all down to the attributes code itself

As soon as any page has more than a normal ammount of options in any dropdowns the pages slow and in my own case almost stop, curl up n die.

I have been playing with other shop scripts and have found the fastes to load my 300+ dropdown options is agoracart, it loads the products page in about 1 sec, against 15 to 70 secs with zencart.

its not my mysql server, its not my apache, its not my hardware, as i said in an earlier post, i have 30+ other domains on that server running everything from joomla sites, to postnuke phpnuke oscommerce zencart and custom php+mysql, and everything runs great.

Infact zencart runs great, untill you open the product page.

Linda, when you asked for the copy of the database you mentioned a newer better configured optimised zencart codebase that was due out, whats happening with that code, is a trial available anywhere.

Because as it stands, i honestly believe everyone is blaming server configs, mysql installs and configs, and noone is prepared to officially go on record and say that its the attribute code which is the cause of all the problems

StevenD

I am working on making a faster and better method ...

However I have had issues that do not afford me the luxury of fixing this in all my free time right now ... as I don't have much of it ...

I had a lot more before we got flooded out and I am just catching up ...

So if asking you a few questions is too much for you to answer in the meanwhile ... I am sorry that I cannot help you right now ...

I will be trying to get back to the database fixes as soon as I can and any code changes that can help ... but I only have 10 fingers and 10 toes and someone went and only put 24 hours in a day ... :cry:

StevenD,

I can understand your frustration, however I can tell you that the server has alot to do with the issue,
if you are running 30 or more sites all using mysql, and there are other resellers on this same server. you can see where there might be a bottle neck somewhere.

now with that out of the way,
Zen cart is a pig for resources on attributes, this has been stated by lots of folks,
but with a few tweaks, and setting the indexes accordingly, Yes in older versions of zen cart this was NOT done in the install ( it is now )
it will speed things up,
I believe Sashbox.com has several examples of zen carts on his main page and if im not mistaken several have loats of attributes.

so just blaming it on zen cart is not a true statement either,

its a combination of both.

in regards to the other carts mentioned do they other the range of services for attributes that zen cart does?

On this last Im not being a smart@$$ I am genuinly curious.

Steven-

If you will look at the roadmap, you will see that the next major release contains MYSQL Query Optimization. Until then, take Linda's advice and add some more indexes and make sure your server can handle the load.

here is a link to a php/mysql page, its very basic, because it is just a search system, nothing special

http://dowd.info

the 1851 database and the other tables off that page make up a 250 megabyte mysql database, how 500,000+ entries , its searchable in many ways, and the pages load in no time at all.

the server this site is hosted on, is a quad dual core amd, 12 gig ram etc etc etc..

I know for a fact what other sites are hosted and what isnt, the server is not an issue, the mysql is the same mysql server as my zencart , the apache the same, the php the same.

the zencart runs crap,

it runs fine, on all pages, untill you have to open the products page with all the options

here is a link to two test sites. which i have tried these options

click this first

I am sure that page would have loaded ok, it has roughly 300+ option attributes in the drop downs.

click this second

This is the same glasses in a zencart products page, roughly same overall options in the dropdowns, just not formatted into the same layout, i didnt want to spend anymore time than about ten minutes on the agora cart system untill i was sure it would load the pages.

if you click the view all products pages in either cart, zen or agora, the load at about the same speed, zencart only struggles at the attributes pages.

ok, i realise that agora is cheating and not a fair test as it uses includes of a html template for the options, but real life has to kick in, and say that at the moment, zencart has major issues with its products pages if their are more attributes than basic choice of a few red, blue, black type options

its because i have so many different perfectly working installations of different php+mysql code systems in my same server, that i can say with more confidense than most, that it IS zencart which is at fault, not the mysql etc..

and i do not see any problems with the index's, thats not the issue, the issue is that the products page makes to many seperate quiries, for my products page it makes 11,000+ seperate queries, why the hell doesnt it just ask to select * from xx where y=z

why the hell 11,000 times for 300+ options.

ok, my page is extreme i accept that, but by being extreme it has shown up, how bad the system is, when your normal 5 option dropdown page makes 400 queries something is wrong.

dont blame the hosting or index's, it should be faster than this even if their was no index.

Steven Dowd

Turn off the calculations that are not needed ...

That is the biggest problem ... on attributes ...

Hosting is often the issue on sites with 20 or less attributes ... never should you see dog sites for that ...

50 to 80 attributes can still run well on a properly configured site ...

Your site is extream ... which is why the need to gear the attributes differently is so important ...

300 attributes doing calculations you do not use ... that is the issue ...

unfortunatly there are no options that can be turned off, all are needed

because the glasses options will be chosen from details a person will have on a prescription form saying what their eye details are, left and right eyes will probably be different, and the options have to be chosen from the drop down, rather than just inputted into a text box, becuase otherwise if the person reads a hand written prescription wrongly, ie misses the .(dot) out of 1.25 calls and checks have to be made to see if it was 1.25, 12.5 etc etc, or at worst glasses could be made and then delivered and arrive wrong because of a wrong number entered, using drop downs means they have to enter in the format wanted, also allowing for ~ infinity etc..

so loosing a few options isnt an option (no pun intended )

how do i get a copy of any newer improved zencart code to test?

StevenD

Sorry- but you will get it when everyone else does. When it is finished and released.

StevenD ...

I have your database loaded in v1.3.0.2 on my site ... I have changed nothing to the database, indexes, etc. I have not attempted to speed up anything at this point ...

Your products_id 12 that takes first hit on your site:

Parse Time: 54.619 - Number of Queries: 11924 - Query Time: 51.87784507579

And your site 2nd hit takes:

Parse Time: 54.164 - Number of Queries: 11934 - Query Time: 52.863686105011

Loads on my site first hit:

Parse Time: 6.036 - Number of Queries: 11930 - Query Time: 5.19674339697

Second hit:

Parse Time: 5.477 - Number of Queries: 11946 - Query Time: 4.66335187886

Servers can make a lot of difference ...

I will check indexes later when I have more time ...

I will PM you access to this site for you to review your products on a my server ...

NOTE: The products tested have approximately 539 attributes each ...

Oh and I forgot ... the server is:

Model Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.20GHz
Chip MHz 3192.09 MHz
Cache Size 512 KB
RAM is 2 GIG

Ok, I'm not trying to open an old wound, but I run 4 zen-cart sites that have long lists of fragrances. Some products can have 200+ choices in several categories.

I recently upgraded one store to v1.3.5 from a version from last year. This site is now having problems with the attributes and is sooo much slower than before and those that are still running older versions.

I believe that a bad hosting server could be a problem, but this is the same server as I've used for years, the other stores are not having a problem. It only comes to mind that it could be possible that the attributes module is not working as efficiently as it should?

I don't want to get into a spitting match about server settings, indexing or any other stuff I just wanted to put in my two cents and will wait patiently for an update, but only if I know one is coming. Otherwise I have to find another solution for these products.

Is this something that is being worked on?

Thanks.