Attributes HOW-TO

midiwhale-
I sell kits in three sizes, SM MED and LG. The way I decided to do it, was to turn on "Price by Attribute" in the product, and make the price 0.00 there (this is on the "Add Product" form. I also set the weight to 0.00 on this same form. Then I built three attributes for the three sizes, with the correct price in each one, and correct weight for that size.

I decided to do it this way because I like the display to the customer better. I tried setting up a base amount in the product form, based on the small size price, then using attributes to add the extra for the different sizes, but I didn't like how it looked to the customer. My medium is 4.00 more than the small and on the product page, it said Medium +4.00. I was afraid it would mislead people to think that was the price.

On the Attributes controller page, the only boxes I have filled in are Price, Weight, and Order. I totally ignore the rest. Fortunately, this is not a form where you have to put something in every box. It's been working like a charm for me.

I used a dropdown box style for selection and made the medium size the default choice if the customer doesn't change it.

Hope this helps! You can look at my setup as an example at:
http://www.embellishments-by-patti.com/zen...index&cPath=1_2
Patti Stoll

Thanks for sharing what worked for you on the Pricing by using the Price by Attributes feature ... :)

Note: if you are not using the other pricing settings ... under the Attribute Settings ... you can turn those off so they do not appear on the screen.

This makes the screens less clunky on adding/editing attributes.

Thanks for the reply midiwhale.

**I don't understand what you are trying to achieve.

Surely the options also need tax applied to them?
In which case you enter them as exc. tax.
Or you could turn tax off and leave it until checkout.**

I'm not so good at explaining myself and I apologise! I'll try to clarify better:

In Australia, majority of products & services are subject to 10% GST (goods and services tax). It is an overwhelming practice and assumption of buyers, that the price displayed is inclusive of the GST of 10%. As is the showing of this GST as a total only say at checkout.

No worries as far as that goes, to edit my product I enter my "Tax Class" which is taxable goods of 10%, enter my product gross price which is inclusive of this tax, and all is well. It shows only in checkout as "Inclusive of GST of: $xx.xx" and does not add to the sub total.

This is fine for single products, however the majority of my products come in different weights. So I add the attributes based on size of the particular product, e.g.

Red marbles
Size: 1kg $xx.xx
Size: 2kg $xx.xx
Size: 4kg $xx.xx

With these products, when I add them, I set the "Tax Class" (which is the 10%), but I leave the gross price as zero and "set price by attributes".

Now, if I enter the gross price for Red Marbles Size 1kg in attributes, to say $35.00, it will automatically add a further 10%. Which is not wanted, but understandable since I told it to add tax when I input the product.

But as I don't want this, I have been calculating the net price (which is less 10%) to correct it for my purposes. However I have found this very time consuming and was wondering from you knowledgable people if there was an easier way.

Also, the problem with this is the net price rather than the gross price, displays in the browser which would be confusing to the customer.

I tried the price factor 1.1 with offset 1. in different combinations but this doesn't work out exactly (and I'm no mathematician to try working it out further!).

Your suggestion of turning off tax until checkout would not work, as it would only add tax to the sub total, not be an inclusion as I require for Australian purposes.

I thought perhaps I was missing something - but the more I look and read, I believe that perhaps what I am doing is the only way to achieve the end result I'm after? But I'm only new to this and any suggestions / comments would be kindly appreciated.

I am not quite following the logic of excluding the tax on attributes.

If you are showing prices with tax ... why wouldn't you want the attributes to also be displayed in a like manner?

A price is a price is a price, isn't it?

Tax on a product that is taxed is the whole price.

Why are you needing this distinction?

Type really, really slow ... I am not always the brightest bulb on the tree ... :blink:

My apologies, to make a short story longer...

** I am not quite following the logic of excluding the tax on attributes.

If you are showing prices with tax ... why wouldn't you want the attributes to also be displayed in a like manner?**

That's just it, I am not excluding tax on the attributes - the price I am inputting IS inclusive of tax. So I am "showing prices with tax".

I do not know my net price.
I do know my gross price.

WHY?
Remember, we're talking "Down Under" - we're upside down! - ;) we don't ADD tax to a product(s), we Subtract 10% - and merely display this figure on receipts/invoices (in case the purchaser is a business & can claim this amount back at the end of the financial year).

AND;

It's an Australian Tax Office legal requirement that I must have a customer receipt (invoice) with this displayed.

To get this to show up in the checkout, I must enter my product to have a "tax class" of 10%.

Which means the product price I enter in attributes, must be worked out to be 10% less - so it adds back up to the product price correctly.
e.g.
My product price is $72.00
$72.00 divided by 11 = $6.5454.
$72.00 subtract $6.5454 = $65.4546

So I enter $65.4546 in attribute so it displays back as $72.00 AND in checkout will display as:

Sub Total: $72.00
Includes GST of: $ 6.54
Shipping: $ 2.00
TOTAL: $74.00

Okay, so I started to do this. But faced with doing this another 1000+ times, and not having a complete comprehension of what price factor etc meant, I thought there may be a quicker/better way of doing it.

Also, in the above example, the product info page will show the price as $72.00, but in the browser displays as $65.45 - confusing to the Aussie consumer as we don't display products less any tax - we just show how much tax is INCLUDED in the total figure.

I think I may have to accept this and settle for explaining this in the shop front.

After some of your comments, I now believe there is no other way around these things and if this is so and I don't get a reply, I apologise for "taking up space".

I guess I am just a little dimm today ...

If the product is $100 and the attribute is $10 ...

I enter the product at 100 and the attribute at 10

Then ... turn on the show prices with tax if desireable ... and it automatiically manages this for me and adds the tax to these prices.

Were you perhaps not aware that you have turned on the display tax and that is why the prices show with tax?

Hi Johorse,
maybe I have hold of the wrong end of the tree?!

The UK is much the same for consumer sites. We need to show inc. tax prices and show it seperately on the invoice for business customers.
So we work the same way !

In my situation, in admin config, I have admin prices DO NOT SHOW TAX and in the cart DO SHOW TAX.

You know there are these two setting in store config right?

So in my case in the product pages, I enter sale prices exc. tax in the exc. price field and it adds the tax for me.
If I enter a tax inc price in the inc. field, it calculates the exc. tax for me.
I'm sure that's the same for you?!

For priced attributes, actually the price I add is INC TAX which on reflection is strange, but exactly what you want, no?
The attribute is taxable.

It gives me the correct inc price and shows the correct tax amount of tax on checkout.

I'm sure what you want is really easy, I just still can't see it.

One thing is that the ZONES seem quite quite fussy and can nest. So make sure your admin location in your correct zone and that your test customer is in the zone too.

Also that your country is only in one zone, as otherwise they can congregate.

ie if oz was 10% and oz was a zone
but also Hot_Places was 12% tax and Oz was ALSO in HOT_Places, then the tax ends up as 22%.

Or at least that's what seems to happen ;-)

As UK is in EEC, that was causing me major problems until I set the tax rates for the zones and parent zones properly.

I wonder if that was why you were getting an extra 10%.

BTW instead of doing gross*10% then gross-10% to get net, just do this on the gross price to get the net exc. tax....

gross / 1.1

AYK / means divide.

i.e, 110 gross / 1.1 = 100
(for 17.5% it would be / 1.175 - cool?)

BTW failing all else, for 1000 products would it not be worth doing an EXPORT/IMPORT to a spreadsheet ?
The spreasheet copy formula would save you hours.
Even if you just used it to "show" you the prices and didn't re import....

Ajeh:

There is a purpose to the offset on the plus/minus aspect.

There are client's that I have that need the display to read a certain way and calculate properly and having the two values allows both to happen.

For some, just the one setting is needed. Others need both.

All depends on your shop :)
That's what I'd love,
just 1 example of each variation.

And can you explain the "maths" behind the terms "factor" and "offset"?
That's still causing me pain :(

AFAIK in human speak when we talk of a factoring, we mean percentage.
And an offset would be a master ranging
(ie offset +1 = whatever the answer is add 1)

But here VALUE (Factor?) 1.10 - (Offset?) 1.00 in practice adds 10% but why?

if these two terms are defined in your book I am definitely buying it !! Even if you tell me the answer now !! Scout's honour....

Let's say the products_price is $10

then attributes_price_factor 1 and attributes_price_factor_offset is 0

10 x (1-0) = 10

then attributes_price_factor 2 and attributes_price_factor_offset is 1

10 x (2 - 1) = 10

then attributes_price_factor 3 and attributes_price_factor_offset is 1

10 x (3-1) = 20

then attributes_price_factor 1 and attributes_price_factor_offset is .1

10 x (1-.10) = 9

then attributes_price_factor .90 and attributes_price_factor_offset is 0

10 x (.90 - 0) = 9

This is simple math.

Some sites fine this easier to use one way vs the other. So having the two fields helps store owners utilize this feature in a method that makes more sense to them.

Thanks Linda,

GREAT EXPLANATION ;-)
Is this in the book? Do I have to get my credit card out ??

There is a major issue here though !

According to your formula you can leave the offset as 0 and basically it should have NO impact on the answer. BUT it does !!

And this is why it goes the shape of the pear ;-)

The formula as you've said is supposed to be

Value * (factor - offset)

Great !!

But when tryign to add 20% to a price;

3.50 * ( 0.2 - 0 ) SHOULD = 0.70
BUT it is NOT. In zencart it equals 0.60

To get the correct answer you HAVE to use an offset of 1 and a factor of 1 point percentage

ie
3.50 * ( 1.2 - 1 ) = 0.70

Please try it if you don't believe me !!

Maybe there is a simple reason for this I don't understand, but the formula "quoted" should NOT give that answer !
A calculator does not!

This is why nobody gets it IMHO. Because it's ::cens

Because logicallly for 20% you can just go ( 0.20 - 0 ) BUT in zencart it comes out as less than 20% ::frust

With your explanation I can finally work around it, but it is pants to HAVE to use an offset of 1 and a point percentage value, to get the right answer. It just is not natural :blink:

I wonder of this is part of our ozie friends problem too with his extra 10% (i.e. nothing to do with tax) :-(

In your last example

**then attributes_price_factor .90 and attributes_price_factor_offset is 0

10 x (.90 - 0) = 9

This is simple math.
**
3.50 should add 3.15, but it adds 2.68.
This is why I could never work it out. Because 2.68 is what relation to anything - LOL

If the offset is zero it gets it wrong. How can that not be a bug ?

I get .70 if I use either situation:

3.50 with .2 and 0
3.50 with 1.2 and 1

Are you perhaps experiencing a tax issue or something?

Ajeh:

I get .70 if I use either situation:

3.50 with .2 and 0
3.50 with 1.2 and 1

Are you perhaps experiencing a tax issue or something?
But if I use the second version, the answer is correct.

How can that be a TAX issue ?

Maybe its a server PHP version issue then ?
I'm using 5.0.3

When I use a zero offset the maths is wrong!

There are many issues with v5.0.3 ... some claim you can fix them with v5.0.4

Others say go unix with v4.3.11

Undex unix ... v4.3.11 ... no issues here that I can see. Both match.

OK I take it all back ::frust
Maybe I'm going mad as well?

I must have tried some of the tests on a non tax product, though I don't see how or why.... I could swear it was the same test eveytime...

Anyway;
0.60 is 17.5 tax off of the correct answer 070 (rounded) - DOH :yk

In other words the offset of zero is (now) working accurately.

::tup

So I am a confused moron ....

But this I "think" explains JoHorse's problem!!

If SHOW TAX IN ADMIN is off then the calculations it "shows" under attributes will be EXC. TAX.
But in the cart, where SHOW TAX is on, the tax is calculated and added correctly to the base product and attribute price.

The other thing is that even if the base price is zero, it needs to be set to a taxable product (if it is), otherwise I don't think the attribute price will know whether to be tax inc. or exc.

So in other words I don't think you need to correct the prices entered in attributes, as these will correctly follow the taxable state of the goods.

So as I intimated before, change your config (temporarily) to SHOW TAX IN ADMIN when entering the attribute price, if you want to do it as gross.
Or if you want to enter it as net, display admin as WITHOUT TAX.

I can't swear that Zencart follows the admin display tax settings when handling attributes, but obviously it should ;-)

Oh boy
:blink:

HOORAY YES ::tup
The Config Store setting "Show Tax in Admin" DOES control whether the attribute prices are displayed/entered inc. or exc vat.
So as I said, if you want to enter gross (inc tax) price atrributes, just turn this on while you do it.

The attributes follow the Tax rules of the product.

If your shop is in a Tax zone and Tax is on then you see the tax whether or not you are logged in.

If your shop is not in a Tax zone and Tax is on ... you only see the Tax if you log into a Tax zone

The Tax follows the rules based on either customer zone or store zone when customer is not logged in.

I am not sure if I am posting in the right area, and if i am in the wrong area, I apologize.
I just wanted to take a moment to say thank you to all of you that contribute to these forums. I have spent most of my time on this forum, and because of this forum, I was able to in 4 hours go from no clue what to do as far as setting up a cart to having a cart up and running. the arrtibutes were quite tricky, but I think that I have got it figured out. it is not set up exactly the way I want, but, it works, and I was able to get it up and running quickly. I am sure I will have plenty of questions on tweaking the settings, and have no doubt i can find them here.

I truly believe that this cart, and the open source is the way to go. I have even convinced a friend of mine to convert from os commerce to zen cart simply beause he saw how much support is offered here, and that even a dummy like me can figure out setup.

so, THANK YOU!!!! to everyone that has contributed to this forum.
you can see my setup at:
http://www.chriscphotography.com/shop
if anyone has any comments, they can email me.

Thanks again,
chris
::tup ::tup ::tup ::tup ::tup ::tup ::tup ::tup ::tup ::tup

Chris-

Thank you for the kind words. We really appreciate them. I do hope that you will al$o $how your appreciation with a donation to the project. Every little bit helps.

Thanks for sharing your experience with Zen Cart with us!! It is always nice to hear such success stories from our members.

It lets us know we are doing right and bringing you the best e-commerce solution that works for you ... :)

Okay, I was in here a few months ago looking for a solution to my attribute troubles. I never really found a solution, so I'm back to see if anyone has any new ideas. Here's the problem.

I am building a site for contact lenses by mail order. (like 1-800-contacts) Each lens type has several required attributes, size, shape, and strength. These are absolutes for ALL lenses. Other types of lenses have other varying attributes. And, each of these attributes have a few, to hundreds of possible values. Then you times that by two eyes.

I know that I could make it so the person has to order one eye, send to shopping cart, then go back and do the other eye. That would be the easy way out. But, if you look at every other website doing what we are doing, they have it so both eyes can be done at the same time. That is what we want.

Example:
Right [BC] [Dia] [Power] [Cyl] [Axis] [Add] [Color] [Quant]
Left [BC] [Dia] [Power] [Cyl] [Axis] [Add] [Color] [Quant]

Each attribute will be a combobox(dropdown), except for the quantity. The quantity option that is already built in to ZenCart would of course be rendered useless.

Does anyone know if this can be done? Should I just hire a company to do this for us?

My company likes the temporary system I put in place, but, it isn't exactly what they are looking for. Please PM, IM, email or just reply if you have an answer. Thanks.

Here's an unusual attributes question...

I'd like to reduce the number of clicks for the user by allowing them to click on an attribute to add the item to the cart (containing that single attribute). (The product I'm selling has only one set of attributes--package size).

Here is a clear example of what I mean (done with a mod to osC):
http://www.psteas.com/product_info.php?products_id=68

I'm not clear how to access the attribute variables within the custom template (tpl_product_info_display.php) and how to set up the hidden form variables for the POST. I'm good with PHP, so any advice for coding this within the overide template would be appreciated.

Thanks