v1.2.6 -> v1.3.5: What a B!TCH!

This thread has shocked me.
We all have.
I am a store owner.
That's understandable, but when you see this:
Then I moved my client's template into the new directory and all hell broke loose!
looks like this person is "making a living" or is billing for his/her service. When you are in business you have to keep your self up to date.
There's not a lot of time for "playing" with Zen Cart.
...and that's why s/he has customers doing this for them.
However, I'd ask everyone to remember that (a) not all of us are super-techs,
Right, but we can ask in a nice way, instead of coming to the forums and blame others of your errors.
In short, can't we all get along?
Did you see the title of the thread? The OP came to vent here because s/he did something (many) thing/s wrong and don't want to take responsability for it.

rayw1679:

This thread has shocked me. I understand the frustration of the originator of the thread; I have considerably more than "basic" computer skills, yet many of the instructions are vague and the terminology is foreign to me. The author vented some of the frustration I often feel when I see instructions that I do not understand. However, I think his frustration was vented in a manner than insulted the ZC team, and that was unfortunate. Some of the responses seemed intended to make the author feel stupid; that is also unfortunate.
Also unfortunate, you have that feeling. I don't think there are intentions to insult anyone in the replies in first place. But just the opposite, it respond to the ... .
You can look around the forum for similar cases about upgrade trouble and/or all sorts. And you will find that how the others eager to provide helps. Some cases even start with similar wording in the post #1 of this thread. :smile:

Obviously, the problem in the first post of this thread were somethings done wrong. Obviously, however, it blame to wrong direction and were doing wrong again.

rayw1679:

I am a store owner. I run the physical store along with my wife, maintain our website, maintain the ZC online store, do the accounting, repair our building, vacuum the carpets, and mow the yard. There's not a lot of time for "playing" with Zen Cart. I'm on 1.2.4, not because I don't want to be up to date, but because I'm intimidated by the number of errors I see in the forums from people who have updated, and it's easier to say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." My online store provides part of my income; I cannot afford for it not to work. However, with the new security threats, I'm going to have to figure out how to upgrade. Even then, I'm concerned about the security issues and changes I'll have to make. I'm quite comfortable around XP, but I never knew what FTP was until I installed Zen Cart.
Security both important for physical store and online store. Although there may not a case happen in before, you may also want add appropriate doors, locks, safe, burglar alarms, CCTV, security guard ... etc. Just in case ... !
And update the software and apply security updates just like the every security routines for physical store. It provide more protections to your store. Like it or not, you should maintain it and it is part of the life, isn't it?

rayw1679:

We're all a little spoiled with Microsoft's one-button update. That's probably not feasible on a user-modified system like ZC. However, I'd ask everyone to remember that (a) not all of us are super-techs, and ZC says it's not a requirement to be one, and (b) the developers are spending a lot of their precious time for a freebie, and we should be most appreciative.

In short, can't we all get along?
For your point (a):
There are many volunteers in this community and they try to answer all the questions all day long. We may or can try to help back to them and help ourself. In the way by learning a bit more for a day, a week or even a month. :smile:

rayw1679:

(b) the developers are spending a lot of their precious time for a freebie, and we should be most appreciative.

In short, can't we all get along?
This is true.

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I may be wrong but I understood that the 1.2.7 update addressed many of the security issues in earlier 1.2 versions. And some further 1.2 modifications were suggested in the security mods thread for 1.3.

I agree with much of the content in this thread regarding keeping up to date but 1.3 was a radical (albeit much improved) departure from 1.2 and as such was an enormously steep learning curve for many. I completely sympathise with those on 1.2.x who are reluctant to make the leap. However I would have thought an upgrade to 1.2.7 was essential as a minimum.

In the end it comes down to a risk assessment. Perhaps someone could provide information as to how much of a security risk a store owner is running using 1.2.7 if all the recommendations are applied including renaming the admin folder, changing permissions on html_includes etc as described elsewhere?

Kelvyn,
My comments are slightly off-topic for this thread, but I'll mention them anyway...> kelvyn:

I would certainly pay for a "loaded" version, pre-installed with what are fairly basic essentials - SEO stuff, those I mentioned, etc.
You've said this over and over again.
So why not hire someone to do it? Paying for someone to integrate a number of so-called "essentials" for each new release probably wouldn't be much different than "paying for a loaded version", except that then you'd have no work to do and would be out of touch with the code.

... and then you'd have nothing to beg for ... :P

I always thought Zen Cart was pretty darn loaded with each new release ... :unsure:

Does this mean kelvyn owes us a few pots of coffee? :smartass:

In any business, the owner is required to be familiar with the tools. Tools are useless without knowing how to use them.

The same thing goes with zen cart. It's not the cure for cancer. It's not going to help you magically develop an online presence, gain customers, stay secure, automatically SEO itself and so on, so on.

It is merely a tool that can be used to help you meet your objectives. There will always be more training. There will always be things to learn. But if you're using the tool, then you need to realize that learning, upadates and basic code knowledge is all part of it.

If you don't want to deal with any of that, there are always people who are willing to do this for you and unlike zen cart, such services are not free.

You get what you pay for, and that's the short end of it.

Of course most of us knew this already, but it's something that indeed is very useful to know for new Zen Cart users:

zforrest:

The same thing goes with zen cart. .... It's not going to help you magically ...... stay secure.... and so on, so on.

ZenCart is the best OS cart I have used and will continue to use, however....

I read the changelog and other articles and realized that 1.3.5 would significantly affect my customized 1.2.7 layout since mine was all tables and 1.3.5 is DIV formatting (the big red 'classic' attention paragraph) plus many files had been changed, moved or deleted since 1.3.0. I installed it as a test and added my template folder but when I enabled it the result was a blank page with just the page background. I am still working with it (in my spare time) to make it look the same but it is a challenge. For this reason I have to stay with 1.2.7 until I get it right.

For one. The products list display of a category no longer has alternating color background or padding. All the image butt against each other. I was able to add padding but I have yet to figure out bgcolor alternation. I figure I will have to make new classess called .odd and .even and apply them somewhere in a file for product listing.

If I can upgrade the security functions without affecting my template then I'll be fine (any suggestions on that?). While DIVs may be the 'way to go' now, I like the simplicity of tables, plus it's what I know and can manipulate.

Anyway, I suppose the solutions are within these forums and I will take the time to sift through but I was just adding my 2cents.

maxima:

For one. The products list display of a category no longer has alternating color background or padding. All the image butt against each other. I was able to add padding but I have yet to figure out bgcolor alternation. I figure I will have to make new classess called .odd and .even and apply them somewhere in a file for product listing.

If I can upgrade the security functions without affecting my template then I'll be fine (any suggestions on that?). While DIVs may be the 'way to go' now, I like the simplicity of tables, plus it's what I know and can manipulate.

Anyway, I suppose the solutions are within these forums and I will take the time to sift through but I was just adding my 2cents.

For the Product Listing page issues, it can be solved by the settings and in the css.
please refer to the topics Product Listed to close together.
The one above is only the more update one and there is another one in the archive for the old forum and at the first of April.

Switch to the new template is not that hard in my view.
I can only tell, once you get and grasp the basic concepts, it just like a computer game. The more you play the more you joy. Many of the modifications can be achieved by settings in the css and it normally only take 1 or 2 minutes to make a change.

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Seethrou, thanks for that link I was able to get the alternating listing.

You might have misunderstood about my dilema though

Switch to the new template is not that hard in my view.
I can only tell, once you get and grasp the basic concepts, it just like a computer game. The more you play the more you joy. Many of the modifications can be achieved by settings in the css and it normally only take 1 or 2 minutes to make a change.

I know how to switch templates but the new 'tableless' template won't work with my 1.2.7 customized theme. For instance: my box headings have rounded corner images which are in table cells and the middle cell contains the box heading. That is not interpreted by the new template system. The page is in chaos. Likewise many other images and formats fall apart. I want to keep my very same customized look with the new security functions which I now realised that I will have to make the css display my theme images and formatting.

maxima:

You might have misunderstood about my dilema though

I know how to switch templates but the new 'tableless' template won't work with my 1.2.7 customized theme. For instance: my box headings have rounded corner images which are in table cells and the middle cell contains the box heading. That is not interpreted by the new template system. The page is in chaos. Likewise many other images and formats fall apart. I want to keep my very same customized look with the new security functions which I now realised that I will have to make the css display my theme images and formatting.
May be I don't understand all your mean. :smile:

Mind you, I also have troubles in the codes for I am not a expert.
And for the codes I know of the css, html, php and mySql can be counted by two hands or two feet. :P

What I do are as I said above, grasp the basic concepts first, it is important.
Or it may means, I don't care anythings of codes, syntax, programs, format ...
I just need to know what are the real problems I am dealing of.
Then find the right tools and methods to solve them one by one.

If you prefer technical terms, the above may call Black Box theory.
By it, usually there are only input and output. For the middle are don't care,
for there are many ways to solve a problem.
And the most important is the Output.

It just like in physical store, you can't know of and do everything by yourself.
In this case, you need some right persons, tools, and ways ... to help.
But at the first you must know what are the real problems you are facing of.
Then find the correct ways to solve the problems, instead of fall back or ignore it.

The more problems you solved and then you will turn to natural reaction mode.
And don't have to spend time or even don't need to think about it.

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Perhaps someone could provide information as to how much of a security risk a store owner is running using 1.2.7 if all the recommendations are applied including renaming the admin folder, changing permissions on html_includes etc as described elsewhere?

In case this was missed - it would be helpful to know how significant a risk anyone using 1.2.7 with all security recommendations applied is running.

I'm not sure how anyone would quantify the "significance" of the risk. There are known ways to break a 1.27 cart. Google around and you'll find them. How significant is this risk? Well, it depends on whether you're luckless enough to have some jerk stumble upon your site and test it for the 1.27 vulnerabilities.

As soon as information gets out about a vulnerability, you are vulnerable - and not just to serious hackers, but to every script kiddie who copies and pastes things he reads on hacker websites. I wish it wasn't this way, but it is.

Scott

maxima, some suggestions on doing rounded corners in css are listed here:
http://www.smileycat.com/miaow/archives/000044.html

Posted by kuroi in the following thread:
http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39094&highlight=rounded+corners

But personally, I'm waiting for CSS 3 and the border-radius property (LOL like that's ever going to work in IE!)

Good luck,
Scott

swguy - I have googled but haven't found anything which suggests 1.2.7 is especially vulnerable. Earlier versions yes - but most information I found suggests that 1.2.7 was purely a security update to address earlier known issues.

Perhaps Kim, Linda or Dr B could comment...

See

http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43377

Good luck,
Scott

I would like to see a update button in the admin that updates the software for you. The FACT remains that updating Zen Cart is a complex and time consuming project.

I believe I have 1.2.x but not sure because I can't find the version number in the admin or on the site. How can you tell what version you have.

And finally, are there any "certified" Zen Cart techs that are for hire to upgrade a Zen Cart. Frankly I don't have the time or the knowledge to take it from 1.2.?? to the new version and am willing to hire someone to do it for me if there is someone who is QUALIFIED. This is on a customers site and I can't afford down time.

I suppose I could just reinstall the new version into another directory with another database and attempt to restore the old database files to it.

Very complex updates. How about an auto updater like so many other server side software programs have?

Thanks,
Mark

If you are looking to hire someone, please post in the Commercial Help Wanteds.

internetoutfitter:

I would like to see a update button in the admin that updates the software for you.
:smile: This will happen some day, if the source codes and docs become 100 MB to 1 GB or more, instead of 10 MB.
And the follows may help this earlier, no third party add ons, every shop with identical template, config ....

However, back to the basic, it need every and any forms of mass donations and contributions from every of us. But seems not the case at this time.

internetoutfitter:

The FACT remains that updating Zen Cart is a complex and time consuming project.
With compare to other similar projects, it may not the case.

internetoutfitter:

Very complex updates. How about an auto updater like so many other server side software programs have?
It may not and can not solve most of the problems. Otherwise, the technical support persons will have no gaps to survive.
In my view, it is just the opposite, the gaps are widen and widen.

Examples for contrast. (only my cases, may not true for others) :wink2:
In before,
many users needed to learn how to use the applications, with some helps they will manage the situations.

Nowadays, the trends are
more and more, users needed to teach how to read very simple manuals and docs,
don't know very basic terms, a term will take several hours to days to explain,
ask repeatly where are the buttons, mouse pointer, left and right, why this time the program don't do this or that,
when asked to read out the errors in screen, always only can said:

• "Somethings like ..., ..., ... ", "eh, ah, ..."
• "Why not come and see?"
• "Why ask me that?! Hey, that is your job! ..., send your manager to me!"

Kidding? No.
Are they average users? May be, but some are in charge of depts. of firms, corps., banks or credit centers and they should know somethings.

.

To all the malcontents, moaners and whiners posting here lately, who are so disappointed by ZenCart:
I hear good things about CubeCart. Check it out!

Good luck,
Scott