Template Monster: Public Service Announcement

Hi I'm Andrew Williams, TM Quality Improvement officer.
Tmonster told me about problems in our templates. Realizing, that 100% functionality of our templates, comparing with standard Zen-cart theme, is our strategic goal, we will try to create Zen-cart 1.3.7 demo theme within 2 weeks (not later than May, 20). I also will post a link to .zip file here to allow all community members to download, test it, and provide feedback.

After your (forum members) approval we will start to produce the improved version of Zen Cart Templates on regular basis.
Besides, we have finished a huge amount of work in CRE themes: getting the approval of all changes from the official developers of the engine.
I will be glad to see you feedback and will post the link to demo template in 3-5 days.
P.S. We have started to work with all customers, referred by this post and see a very positive progress in their satisfaction. Thank you all for participation.

... and why do we care about CRE themes? The two are NOT interchangable.

TMonster,

Do you actually think that your free template is a source of whether something works or not? I've never found a free template on any of the template sites, including joomla, wordpress, etc that worked with both ie and firefox. There are always blowout errors.
Most template users understand that the freebee's are just a method of getting people to purchase the expensive templates which are supposed to have better structure, and actually work. Your templates don't. Even your own support staff admits it.

All in all, I've not heard one of your customers state that the template they bought from you works as easily as you say it does.

To me, that's simply false advertising. If you truly value your reputation you should not sell Zen Cart templates until they work. Otherwise you're just a false advertiser.

I feel that any technical service representative that answers "So" to an inquiry that states that their product doesn't work is the most amazing lack of quality service I've ever seen.

fellis:

Realizing, that 100% functionality of our templates, comparing with standard Zen-cart theme, is our strategic goal, we will try to create Zen-cart 1.3.7 demo theme within 2 weeks (not later than May, 20). I also will post a link to .zip file here to allow all community members to download, test it, and provide feedback.

Interesting. It's May 22 and no demo theme. Maybe you shouldn't have given yourself a deadline. :blush:

Hello, sorry for a small delay in giving of our theme. We had some problems with DNS server, but today everything was successfully fixed and, according to my promise, I’m presenting Zen-cart theme for your consideration.

First of all, I would like to tell why we didn’t start selling Zencart themes with full functionality from the beginning. Basic theme proposes easily, with the help of style sheet to change colors, fonts, and the store logo. We, as the leaders of production in web design industry, know well enough how to make the design, which will attract potential buyers to the site and not scare them away. Our site, templatemonster.com is also an online store, however, we don’t use zencart shopping cart in it because it has very limited opportunities to change site appearance.

If you have a look at our templates, you will easily notice how greatly the layout is customized and how various is the design of separate boxes. For comparison, let’s take some stores, made on standard Zencart template and our similar templates:

Clothes store:

By templatemonster.com
http://osc2.template-help.com/zencart_14870/index.php

other http://www.canadascrubs.com/

cd and dvd store

By templatemonster.com
http://osc2.template-help.com/zencart_13803/index.php

other
http://www.videoseconds.com/shop/

computer store
By templatemonster.com

http://osc2.template-help.com/zencart_14059/index.php

other
http://www.interlogicindustries.com/

pets store

by templatemonster.com
http://osc2.template-help.com/zencart_15060/index.php

other
http://www.dawgtreats.com/

book store

by templatemonster.com
http://osc2.template-help.com/zencart_14936/index.php

other
http://www.fackboken.se/

What do you think, which store appearance customers will prefer? Moreover, the majority of our customers stay satisfied with the purchased product. The amount of complaints and requests to exchange the template for another one from the customers constantly reduces.

Yet, the policy of templatemonster.com guarantees 100% satisfaction to everyone who purchased our templates. That’s why we focused out attention on you, the advanced users of zencart.com. In the offered template, a compromise between excellent design and almost full functionality and management from the administrative part has been found. I would like to know your opinion as to this theme. Waiting impatiently for your comments. If you have some technical solutions as to more convenient integration of our designs in zencart shopping system, I will get to know them with great pleasure.

.zip with theme http://osc.template-help.com/zencart_test.zip

theme front end demo: http://osc2.template-help.com:8081/sample_zencart/

take a look at https://www.mitea.comn
https://www.moissaniteco.com

those are 2 that I have right otff the bat,

ZEN CART is NOT limited by anything other than the imagination,
and that is PROPERLY using the over rides, syste.

Thank you for taking the time to make this issue right for your customers,

Also please remember that when you create a new template for Zen Cart thet you ONLY need to have the files that you MODIFIED in the custom folders,

Your comparisons prove that many Zen Cart users are neither professional graphic designers nor skilled in manipulating CSS or PHP. So what's news?

As Merlin says, most styling and functionality can be set without touching core code or disabling standard functions.

Your demo template is nice looking, and the product listing is well styled, with font color/size and placement more attention-getting than the stock version. Have you still controlled the description length in template code with admin length disabled? I have seen people upset at being unable to use the function.

Since you feel the very short description is needed for this layout, I might suggest that you test for the default value being used. If the user has set something other than default, allow their desire to control output. This principle may help you make templated designs that still allow user admin functions.

OMG!!! Have any of you actually looked at the files? Instead of using the Zen Cart system they have "invented" new ones!!!! They have added php back to the templates!!!

For example: The tpl_box_left default has grown from 24 lines (including the copyright header) to 89 lines so you can do what? Have different colors and box tops? That can ALL be controlled with the stylesheet and the language file!!! NO CODING CHANGES NEEDED.

Oh here's another good one - spacer gifs - in tpl_main_page - again CSS can do wonders with padding and margins

WTF is tpl_tmfuncs.php? ARGH!!!!

A proper Zen Cart template OVERRIDE - Only contains the files that have been changed- Why are there directories for the pop ups?

Good heavens! Do you think you nested the <divs> deep enough in the sideboxes???

...and you had to touch every single interior template to accommodate your custom function?

... I can go on and on, but this one still gets :oops::oops: from me.

fellis,

It is very good to see some proactive attention by Template Monster with respect to the subject. Your templates are no doubt very nice to look at. The variety in selection of graphical styles is excellent.

Despite reading the gripes on this forum, I did go ahead and recently purchase a TM template for a project that's come up. My skills are good enough that I can take the gamble on fixing the template to proper operation, rather than start from scratch with graphics and design. Also, am fortunate to have additional organization resources at my disposal for the task.

"Out of the box" the template looks great and installs quickly. HOWEVER, there are a great number of bugs and poor design choices found. (sticking to basics, not going to list everything)

-> directory structure is not in line with Zen Cart structure; ok it works and I understand why TM packages the entire template into a single template directory - simplicity, but in the long run your customers will endure problems by this.
-> template shows language selection, but there is a lot of hard coded text mixed into the template and will not display translations till correctly modified
many basic admin functions are defunct because the were stripped out of the template; in many cases unnecessarily
-> many core features, example search, is not fully functional because of poor coding or bugs
-> nearly all of the ZC functions (core functions, not referring to admin switches) are chopped - not used in conducive manner
{comments}
-> template ignores the move to table-less design; ok - not a requirement (I'm the rare minority that still likes table design), but this also disregards current template design trends as well as current ZC design
-> in no way validates for HTML or CSS - requires a lot of work; again it wasn't promised by TM up front, but not good current design practice. Plus ignores ZC move toward validation.
-> it would be very handy to know up front, what release version of ZC the template is compatible with. (more specific than 1.2 or 1.3) ZC like many other projects TM designs for, is a dynamic project that is continuously improving it's core.

It's been said earlier that you have a large pool of personnel dedicated to cranking out templates. TM designs for a broad array of projects that are out there. Still it would be of greater value to have persons who have a more intimate understanding of the projects, such as ZC, for which they are creating templates.

As said above, I can handle the transformation of TM's template to more proper functionality. For many using ZC, they don't have such resources to fall back on. The satisfaction guarantee is good, but perhaps from a business perspective better attention and protocol in design would allow you to free up support resources.

(Don't have the time right now to look at the sample template, busy chugging away on the one I bought. Will look on another day.)

Again, good to see the proactive nature by TM. Hopefully it leads to improved product from TM and a better overall value to TM's customers.

It’s a great respect for me to see one of the engine founders in the discussion etc. I would like to try to explain our logic during introduction of the following changes.
If we are wrong anywhere, we will hear out your comments with pleasure.

To my mind, everybody understands how a good and mainly correctly constructed design affects the potential customer. Of course, we agree with Merlin that Zen Cart is flexible enough, but for achieving better results, for introduction design elements that can’t be thrown out, we modify the outlet of some elements. Below we gave the examples of code, which are being changed for achieving the desired result.

For example pages headings: in standard, headings are brought out in tags <h1…. </h1>. In simple occasions, it is possible to modify CSS file and rewrite style, of course, but for bringing out for example such kind of heading:
http://osc2.template-help.com/zencart_15120/index.php - using tag <h1 for such actions isn’t enough.
In standard, the heading looks like that:

Sideboxes. Zen Cart architecture allows to change heading and content part of sideboxes, but all boxes of side columns look the same, but, for example, to make the design look like that http://osc.template-help.com/zencart_12998/index.php standard functionality is not enough. Really, the files of left and right columns bringing out are changed (tpl_box_default_right и tpl_box_default_left), but the code in them only defines box’s ID and depending on that ID brings out one or another HTML code for heading bring out, without breaking the functionality. I would like to stress ones again that all these is being done to improve the appearance.

Product Listing. In the version 1.3.7 zen engine collects the elements of bringing out into an array, which is delivered to the template for bringing out, that considerably limits template’s bringing out opportunities. ($list_box_contents[$rows][$col] = array('align' => $lc_align,
'params' => 'class="productListing-data"',
'text' => $lc_text);),
This does not allow placing the listing elements in the order stipulated by design, although this method has it’s own advantages. But, for example, using the standard bring out, it’s impossible to bring listing to such appearance.

<http://osc2.template-help.com/zencart_14595/index.php>

As to files and folders structure, they all are taken from standard template, which comes with Zen Cart installation. Often we inserted into files only our functions (which bring out design heading and close it).

http://www.moissaniteco.com/ - This is a very nice site. The most beautiful products listing is made with the usage of pictures and inscriptions to them as background image, I don’t think that it will be convenient for users to edit such listing. Visually, the bring out itself, very favorably differs from the standard one, but unfortunately, without editing of tpl files, responsible for product listing, and changing only css, it’s impossible to reach such results.

As to the method of our html (css) coding, I agree that there are many divs there, but now this is the only structure suitable for our making-up demands, as it had been tested in all main browsers. If you propose me any html coding way with less divs amount, without position:absolute, but with template full screen 100% stretching, and columns with dependence on height.

thank you for your patience.

you can change the tpl_files
just stop taking the functionality out of em.

and there are LOTZ of kool things that can be done with side boxes,
left right each box

its been done WITHOUT destroying the core code,

also there is NO reason to includes the sql file other than to turn ON sideboxes,

last thing unless you modify a file STOP putting them in the over rides, they DONT need to be there, this isnt phpbb where you have to have a complete set of files in the template.

I would suggest hittng the link at the top of this page, get the book,
and see JUST how ZC and th eover rides work, it will save you alot of time and ALOT of complaining from people that their sites DONT work right, when they trrow a switch in the admin thats supposed to do something special

Merlinpa1969 thank you for your reply, but i mus admit thank a lot of our customers prefer to install .sql files to make a look of their store like our template on demo. Sure it's not a necessary step.

Having already done an upgrade to a TemplateMonster Template, I know from experience the coding needs a lot of work.

Aside from beginner mistakes to Validation or the Template Designer(s) are too lazy to do them right, it is true that working with the ZC Overrides system will save just a whole mess of problems. As the Overrides system matures and becomes more logical / easier to use, NOT using the Overrides or trying to circumvent it, will not be an option to most people.

I would also like to point out that TemplateMonster lumping osCommerce Templates with ZenCart Templates, is not doing anyone any good. I think it's time for ZenCart to have its own sub-directory.
zencart.template-help.com - instead of - osc2.template-help.com

"Sideboxes. Zen Cart architecture allows to change heading and content part of sideboxes, but all boxes of side columns look the same, ... Really, the files of left and right columns bringing out are changed (tpl_box_default_right и tpl_box_default_left), but the code in them only defines box’s ID and depending on that ID brings out one or another HTML code for heading bring out, without breaking the functionality."

The standard template files give class/id tags that can be used to control every particular sidebox in a different style, just with the stylesheet.
If your basic design calls for the sideboxes to be arranged in a particular order, you can specify that with some sql added to the database to preset things usually controlled from the admin; but there is no need to fix that order in your template code. If someone wants it different, you can & should allow the standard admin functions to operate.

Thank you all for your replies!

We know about zen-cart override system, but poorly we can't use it. many of our customers are not experienced in zen-cart users. And even installation of our template is not a simple step for them. If we will asked to put them files that we have changed into folders required, and even will provide clear instruction with step by step tutorial, they will not appreciate us. Why do you think that copying changed files to <template> folder is not a good solution?

About styles (classes and id's).

If you browse our templates collection, you will notice that we can code all side boxes in the same layout in html, similar to html output provided by zen-cart functions. You agreed that DESIGN DOES MATTER, so we can't create all templates with the same layouts and styles.

even simple CMS, Mambo provides different parameters in functions that draw side boxes - mosLoadModules ( 'left', -3 ); 2nd parameter can be '-1' '-2' '-3' '-4' - and shows if there will be tables or divs and their quantity in layouts.

does anybody of you have any remarks concerning functionality of zen-cart we provided?

We know about zen-cart override system, but poorly we can't use it. many of our customers are not experienced in zen-cart users. And even installation of our template is not a simple step for them

If you cant figure out how to follow the template guidelines might I suggest that you STOP creating ZC templates,

and IF you can figure out how to use the template system this will actually make it EASIER for your customers to install into ZC

as fars as the files INTO the template folder
YES put the CHANGED files into the template folder, however looking at the demonstration template you coppied the contents of the entire template_default into the custom folder, this is NOT needed,

ONLY the files that are changed need to be in the custom folder.,

Look at the classic template folder, a few images and a css folder, thats ALL thats in the classic template

I would suggest taking a look at the templates located at (sorry, site offline). not for insperation but on how a template shoud be structured to use the over rides.

but back to the begining of this post,
IF you cant make it so that your templates DONT kill functions then DONT create them

Template Monster offers some amazing templates from a graphics point of view. Based on the posts fellis has made it simply appears that they are just familiar enough with the code to make a zencart template (even if it requires a good amount of code hacking). The general feeling I get is that they are not familiar enough with the cart and its flexibility and so they are essentially doing too much work, too much hacking at the core code, which in turn creates more work for their customers. Maybe it comes from years of hacking at OSC code so they are used to having to do it the hard way.

fellis,

Sorry that I am stepping in here very late - as I tend to avoid any posts about Template Monster with a passion.

I reference to your comparison post #25 in this thread - and where you state:

What do you think, which store appearance customers will prefer? Moreover, the majority of our customers stay satisfied with the purchased product. The amount of complaints and requests to exchange the template for another one from the customers constantly reduces.
One - you compare actual working functioning stores to your "demo" installs???
If the statement that your customers are "satisfied” then why did you not reference these "satisfied" customer's live functioning sites? Maybe because there are none?

It has not been stated that the TM templates do not look attractive - only that they do not allow the standard functionality to be used.

In your posts, you seem to be claiming that TM must resort to their tactics to create the templates they offer and in effect breaking much of the usability of the core Zen Cart code. I liken this to buying a Mercedes where none of the accessories function. Why and how can you believe that this is an acceptable position?

I suppose that I need to echo others here and state that as long as you hold to the concept that you must break the carts functions to achieve the graphic representations that you have, that you should desist any advertisement that these are Zen Cart compatible.

As you openly state that you are aware that many individuals are not fully competent and have trouble even installing your templates, then you also know that they do not have the where with all to ascertain from your descriptions that what you have is not fully compatible. I would have to come to the conclusion that knowing this and while you continue to maintain that your templates are compatible that you are intentionally perpetrating fraud upon your potential customers and the industry as a whole.

I would suggest that if you are serious when you state that this is not your intention, that you immediately remove all mention of compatibility on your site and not make this claim until you have addressed your issues with compatibility and have designers that can adhere to the structure of Zen Cart. When you can produce a template that validates, one that does not circumvent the admin controls, one that also adheres to the file structure of Zen Cart(learn the structure and use it) this is the easiest no matter what you might think. There can be no easier install than dragging your includes folder to the host - and with all files structured correctly they install flawlessly and are then locatable in the normal Zen Cart format and not one that you have ascertained that is easer for you.

I have little faith that you or TM will pay heed to the above suggestion in part or in whole and unless I see that you are genuinely interested in correcting what I consider your inaccurate portrayal of the products that you offer for the Zen Cart community, that I will continue to warn any and all about what I feel is false advertising to any and all that will listen.

I challenge you and Template Monster to prove me wrong...

(Concerned volunteer Poster)

We would be happy to start producing templates as you suggest if it would allow us to have properly formatted Products listings and Product preview pages.

I am not a technician, but I have over 10 years experience in optimizing sales for different online stores worldwide. Thus, I am judging about the template more for its look&feel and attractivity for the customer. As long as our templates allow customers to sell their stuff more efficiently - I think we have archived our mission. Since the front end works without any bugs - customers really don't care how were they coded. Many of our customers are newbies and hardly understand how to upload their files to their web hosting account and Override Zen Cart system could make their life even more complicated.

However, I do agree with you that for experienced users it might be unusual to edit the template produced in our way. That is why I propose to all of forum members to participate in our contest.

We will provide the psd file of the template, provided above and everybody who thinks that he can make it better and more compliant with Zen Cart standards can show their result.

**The winner will receive $500 USD paid via Paypal. **

Please keep in mind that:

• You should maintain the EXACT look of the psd.
• The installation process should be not more complicated for the customer.Show the live demo of the result first and then be ready to provide the zip file with the theme if needed.

Please let me know who wants to participate.