Template Monster: Public Service Announcement

Tmonster,

We would be happy to start producing templates as you suggest if it would allow us to have properly formatted Products listings and Product preview pages.
I can only re-state my Mercedes analogy!
I am not a technician, but I have over 10 years experience in optimizing sales for different online stores worldwide. Thus, I am judging about the template more for its look&feel and attractivity for the customer. As long as our templates allow customers to sell their stuff more efficiently - I think we have archived our mission.
Well Yes, as a business I see where you might think that your mission is accomplished. As a consumer I have to question exactly what that "mission" is.
Making as much money as fast as you can?
Since the front end works without any bugs - customers really don't care how were they coded.
Have you not been reading about the large number of issues that are evident in the frontend? Or is your tech pool telling you that the front end is flawless? If you are not a techie, then just read the complaints that you must be receiving or read the issues here....they are not very often issues in the admin. They are about why a feature that Zen Cart states can be enabled through a setting in the admin is not showing up in the frontend as stated/promised by the Zen Cart team.
Many of our customers are newbies and hardly understand how to upload their files to their web hosting account and Override Zen Cart system could make their life even more complicated.
Again a properly packaged template that is in the correct file structure is the easiest method of installation that can be achieved - FTP the includes folder to the host - all files contained within are placed correctly and transparently to your newbie customers. They need not know anything about the overrides if your template writers do it correctly. Who are you attempting to convince that any other way is easier? Or is this again what your techies are passing to you?
However, I do agree with you that for experienced users it might be unusual to edit the template produced in our way. That is why I propose to all of forum members to participate in our contest.
It is more that your customers are duped out of their money, the template that is advertised as compatible is not working and they come here for assistance. Now because TM does not write to the standard, it becomes very difficult for any of us to direct them to the files that might assist in their correcting any issue with your product and why I and others point them directly back to you the supplier.
We will provide the psd file of the template, provided above and everybody who thinks that he can make it better and more compliant with Zen Cart standards can show their result.

The winner will receive $500 USD paid via Paypal.

Please keep in mind that:

* You should maintain the EXACT look of the psd.
* The installation process should be not more complicated for the customer.

Show the live demo of the result first and then be ready to provide the zip file with the theme if needed.

Please let me know who wants to participate.
You have to be joking!!! A measly $500.00 to assist/point your for profit company in the correct direction where you can then make even more profit.

Make this interesting - A group of volunteers here will collaborate and port your PSD design and then deliver a complete package to your company that you can utilize to base and convert your many templates to that standard. And you are off to making and claiming Zen Cart compatibility and then actually delivering upon these claims. The word spreads rapidly as you are aware. What would be the benefit in this as you see it?

In return, prior to beginning, Template Monster will donate $5,000.00 USD to the Zen Cart Development Project. And upon completion but prior to delivery, Template Monster will donate another $5,000.00 USD to the Zen Cart Project

Now we are talking!!!

(I was born at night it just was not last night)
I only speak for the volunteers here in this community and not the Development team.

Count me in

send away to merlin at camelot-hosting.com

but to further this interest I must state that IF I create a template for you,
and it wins your silly contest, that the template becomes your new DEMO model.

and will NOT be available for sale.

kobra thank you for your replies, but I must admit, that I'm a technician, and I'm the head of the TM team which produced templatemonster.com zen-cart coding standards. We can discuss the advantages and disadvantages of simple zencart themes and our themes for months.

as to customers complains statistics - we're struggle to decrease it to zero, now there are less than 10 complains monthly, 5+ of then concerning to hosting requirements.

Besides, did you have a look at the theme produced above? Please give me a list of admin setting that do not work. We will discuss latter if you find them (I know what setting can't be changed and i know why we did this, but i'm not sure that you downloaded the theme i produced at the beginning of the topic).

and one more question, please explain if you can, is it possible to make such a good-looking listings in different from us way.

(http://osc2.template-help.com/zencart_14508/index.php, http://osc2.template-help.com/zencart_14656/index.php, http://osc2.template-help.com/zencart_14059/index.php, http://osc2.template-help.com/zencart_13961/index.php, http://osc2.template-help.com/zencart_13914/index.php, http://osc2.template-help.com/zencart_13655/index.php)

thank you.

Merlinpa1969 i will send a link to psd files for all competitors in 10 days

To Merlinpa1969

Of course it wouldn't be for sale. I simply want to realize that it is possible and it is easy for customer. And my another intention is to transform the discussion into a positive dialog between customers and developers.

To Cobra

Sorry but I did not read your post before I posted mine (seems like we have been writing it simultaneously).

I have to question exactly what that "mission" is.
Making as much money as fast as you can?The mission is to provide a valuable graphic add-on to existing ZC stores owners and to popularize the whole engine for new customers. You probably don't know that during only last six months over 500 people selected Zen Cart as a back end for their store just because they liked the design we have provided.
In addition, you do not know that before starting to produce ZC templates, I have contacted the Developers team, provided the sample of what we are going to sell and got pre-approval (I wish we should spend more time on that stage).

Yes we are making money, but we are making them in a fair way. Look at other ZC template providers, they have the same problems but nobody is here - discussing things in public and trying to get a win-win solution.

Regarding number of issues - you are right, maybe I have not enough information on them. That is why I have joined this topic to try to classify the issues and find ways to resolve them.

As for your 10K offer - we are ready to do it if ZenCart community will provide us an "Official Certified Templates Developer" status. Now we are talking :).

If not, than we would work on $500 award conditions.

Current $500 contest participants:

1. Merlinpa1969
2. Kuroi

Waiting for others.

<rant> 500 usd!!! Oh wow let me stop what I am doing, and take a pay cut to help the competition. You know I too have kind of written a template engine extension for Zen Cart. You know what it does not do? It does not hinder the upgrading the the Zen Cart any more then any over rides compliant template out there. It does not break any functions. This 500USD the you are so very generous w/ is less money then it would cost a good CSS developer to cut one of your image maps in to a proper template. Because that is all that the Zen Cart look and feels is now that it is a CSS/Div based system. every thing has its own unique ID. Is this function breaking system there so that you can have your designs work w/ OSC and ZC w/ the minimal amount of time spent on them? Would you rather sell a bunch of 1 dollar burgers, from a fast food window, or would you have a business known as place where people can come enjoy and not suffer from the product that they purchased, in a comfortable atmosphere?.

Another thing you tell me that its is hard for your customers to install your templates. Tell you what, give 500 dollars to the ZC foundation and I will tell you how that you can make it really easy for them, you have the resources, I bet there are some good programmers that work for TM. Give them the opportunity to shine and do more then work on and assembly line.

</rant> I feel lighter. Admins can I request a pitch fork post Icon?

TM Crew,

and one more question, please explain if you can, is it possible to make such a good-looking listings in different from us way.
Again not one live shop example !!!! Show us one that looks as you state you and that actually works as you provided....just one....a real live store where your code has not required hacking just to get some of the basic functions to work.
Restate -merlins post see htpp://mitea.com as a ZenCart example
Regarding number of issues - you are right, maybe I have not enough information on them. That is why I have joined this topic to try to classify the issues and find ways to resolve them.
I do applaud you on your taking interest in improving your service to the industry.

As for your 10K offer - we are ready to do it if ZenCart community will provide us an "Official Certified Templates Developer" status. Now we are talking :)
Again,I am only a volunteer poster and can not make these promises. But as sanguisdesign stated and I concurr -I don't even open my pencil box for $500...
But you seem to have 2 takers in this and they are both fully competent to the task
You probably don't know that during only last six months over 500 people selected Zen Cart as a back end for their store just because they liked the design we have provided.
Look to your heart...and then post what TM has donated to this project for allowing yourselves to be able to make your profit.

Again it has been stated that your designs are not attractive...but all that glitters is not gold

Tmonster:

Current $500 contest participants:

1. Merlinpa1969
2. Kuroi

Waiting for others.
You can add me to that list. :smile:

Having just been commissioned to upgrade a ZenCart site using a TM Template, might be interesting for me to compare the two.

As to the PSD, I use Fireworks instead of PhotoShop and it doesn't always understand what PS was doing. So no guarantee on images looking exactly the same, but the dimensions and placement will be identical.

EDIT of Previous post:

Again it has NOT been stated that your designs are not attractive...but all that glitters is not gold

I just had my own horrible experience with Template Monster. I wrote their technical support department because I purchased a template for a client which did not render properly in Internet Explorer 6-7. Both browsers are the browsers of choice for over 80% of the users that come to my clients site. Seeing as to how the problem only existed in Internet Explorer, logic would dictate that the issue would have something to do with the CSS.

As a response, they asked me to hand over the usernames and passwords to both the administration section of the site as well as to my FTP server. I have no idea why they would need my administration password to fix a CSS problem or why they would even need access to my FTP server. You would think since they created and own the template files they would just load the template into ZenCart themselves and fix the CSS issues for IE7 so they could offer the fix to all new users who purchase the template or all existing users that purchased the template in the past.

Requesting that I hand over such security sensitive information when it is not needed is enough to raise a red flag for me and i would advise others to look elsewhere for templates!

Tmonster

Here's a few quotes from your first post in this forum> Tmonster:

We never had any intention to provide low quality service to our customers.

We work really hard to design Zen Cart templates and to increase the attractiveness of Zen Cart powered online shops (to increase the sales volume of their owners).

I understand that it can sound like another BS from the company, trying to recover its reputation etc. To avoid such an image I'll promise to do the following steps ...

we are not fast money makers. We are a big, established company with leading positions on the market. That means, that our aim is to make the business with all of you in long term period.

Your comments and suggestions are very welcome.This all sounds genuine to me, and if I ignore the posts from fellis and concentrate on your other 4 posts to date - they're consist with the sentiments that you've expressed above. Even the "contest" can be interpreted as a very real attempt to see how what you do might be done better, or at least differently. Credit to you for this.

Credit to you also (and I've said this in other threads) for producing templates that look really great.

So why are you still getting a rough ride here? Well there's a historical trust issue. Lots of historical threads about templates that didn't work and disinterested support people. There's also the very obvious issue that the templates are very poorly constructed. They're constructed as though built by people still trapped in a tables mentality, they don't validate and they corrupt Zen Cart structures.

But you've made clear that you're not a technician, so let's focus on what this means for your customers. Although your templates will now load and generally work out-of-the-box, many of your customers come here with significant problems when they try to customize them. Even professional developers have difficulty implementing the final steps that brand your customers' stores and reflect their unique business practices. They are also very difficult to upgrade, so your customers lose out on new functionality and security patches.

And then when I read fellis's posts I get a rather different vibe to that which I get from yours. Initially appearing to be open and listening, these posts tend to degenerate rapidly into justifications for building the templates as you do now. Spurious comparisons between live amateur sites and your controlled demos of professionally-designed templates, do little to support these arguments. But to be fair he's clearly committed to and vested in work in which he has played a major role, and that's not a bad thing, but in this situation, a bit unhelpful.

For example, you launch a contest to see other ways of building templates (BTW my private request to you to see the PSD was to be able to evaluate the genuineness of your intent, i.e. to see if the design would be a fair reflection of Zen Cart's native capabilities, or whether the deck would be stacked to favor tables-based layouts - not to blindly enter the contest!) and fellis responds that it will take 10 days to construct one. Unfortunately, however genuine your intent, this heightens suspicion about what you need those ten days for.

I sincerely hope that you do continue this interest in how Zen Cart does things. It is more advanced architecturally than the other two carts that you support, and once your developers get that, see the opportunities and learn how to take advantage of them, having Template Monster and Zen Cart pointing in the same direction would undoubtedly bring incremental benefits to both parties.

After the events that have unfolded today at Camelot Hosting I will not have the time or the energy to work on this contest for you,

I will however stress that you look at the templates that are available at the (sorry, site offline),

Study the construction of these, and then you will have a better understanding of how a ZC template should be, I am NOT a professional designer, as a matter of fact if I can put together a ZC template that looks good and has all the features of ZC ( after looking at your demo, wouldnt be to hard ) then any one can, especially a commercial outfit like TM.

and to Fellis, what will break the layout,
well adding sub categories would kill it,

the category tabs, is that switch still there, what happens if someone turnes it on?

there are not alot of changes to the product descriotions page so I do not understand your statement about that page and the restrictions on the layout.

Tmonster:

In addition, you do not know that before starting to produce ZC templates, I have contacted the Developers team, provided the sample of what we are going to sell and got pre-approval (I wish we should spend more time on that stage).While this public forum is not really the proper venue to disclose the details of the limited discussions which took place in August 2005 and Sept 2006, it is important to note that there was no pre-approval given. Instead, we asked for zips (so we could give feedback and coaching on proper methods) instead of only the ability to look at 6 sample installed demo sites using v1.3 as a code base. We did not receive any reply. Instead there was silence until you began posting in this thread.

I'm not posting this to be argumentative -- merely to set the record straight so that folks aren't misled by the statement.

Sorry- I misspoke. Kim has informed me there were some samples early in the 1.3 phase, but they wouldn't install and she gave up trying.

to Kuroi

Thank you very much for your feedback. As for 10 days - I just wanted to wait for others to join the contest. The psd can be sent just now, but I think it would be fair if all participants start at the same time.

to Merlinpa1969

Sorry to hear about those events. Anyway, I hope you will continue to watch this topic an provide your valuable feedback.

to DrByte
Nice to meet you here. My records show totally different picture - after we've sent zips we have never received any feedback and decided to go live. As I stated before I wish we could do it in a better way. I hope it is not too late and we can find ways to collaborate in the future.

Here is the updated list of participants:

1. Kuroi
2. Website Rob

If we don't see anybody else by the end of this week. We will publish the psd and see the result.

Sorry forgot to reply to Kobra about the examples of live stores.

We do not have our templates usage tracking system, since most of our customers are developers, who buy the templates and create websites for their customers.

However, I will ask our support team to try to get such information during the regular support process.

Will publish results here.

Tmonster & fellis,

Check this thread for only one of your issues where your template does not allow default functions of Zen Cart to actually work: Thread on Issue

Setting Admin > Images and set "Image - Shopping cart status = "0" causes non-standard display

Here is the updated list of participants:

1. Kuroi
2. Website Rob
3. Portali

The psd will be sent to everybody on Monday.

Tmonster & fellis,

Another thread where the template is not responding to css alterations:
Template Monster css Issue