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ozpost shipping module

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3 Jun 2010, 6:21 AM
#661
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ozpost shipping module

Hi Rod.

I have 'constrain dimensions' enabled. 105cm may have been exceeded but the main problem for me is still the same... the calculated parcel dimensions.

On another example....

Product dims: 5 x 5 x 2.1 cm.
Quantity: 100 units
Parcel dimensions (OzPost): 5.00x2.10x100 (cm)

These 100 fittings fit into a little box or bag easily and if fractionally lighter would be shipped in a 500g satchel, but otherwise 3kg satchel. The 100cm parcel dim means no satchel option.
[EDIT: actually the product dims are smaller in reality than specified, more like 5x2x2, hence easily fitting into a small bag.]

Cheers
Greig

3 Jun 2010, 7:38 AM
#662
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Re: ozpost shipping module

GAM:

the main problem for me is still the same... the calculated parcel dimensions.

Please don't make me repeat my spiel about the holy grail of shipping modules, because that is what we all want.

GAM:

On another example....

Product dims: 5 x 5 x 2.1 cm.
Quantity: 100 units
Parcel dimensions (OzPost): 5.00x2.10x100 (cm)

That looks wrong to me.
5 x 5 x 2.1 x 100 should come out as 5x5x210 (cm)

Hmmm, perhaps that's wrong too... how about...

50x50x2.1 (cm) or perhaps
50x5x210

It all depends on how they are packed/stacked. For multiple quantities of any given size this is quite easy to figure out and demonstrate. It gets really complicated when multiple items of different sizes are added.

Of the examples just given, which one is 'correct' and 'why'?

Can you suggest any 'rules' that can be applied by the module that will work in all cases for all users (or even most cases for most users?). If so, I'll be more than happy to lead you on your way down the slippery slope until even you give up after a few weeks/months.

GAM:

These 100 fittings fit into a little box or bag easily and if fractionally lighter would be shipped in a 500g satchel, but otherwise 3kg satchel. The 100cm parcel dim means no satchel option.
[EDIT: actually the product dims are smaller in reality than specified, more like 5x2x2, hence easily fitting into a small bag.]

The solution is simple. Pre-pack these fittings into bags of 100 and sell them as such. You can still sell them singularly of course, but the customers will soon realize that buying 1pack of 100 is going to save them a fortune in P&H over ordering 100 individual items.

Besides, if someone wants an odd amount, such as say 80 .. They'll be more inclined to buy the 100 pack because the cost difference will probably outweigh the postage difference. Furthermore, as these are now prepackaged you don't need to waste time counting out 80 of them. It's a win-win, the customer will get more product for less $outlay, and you'll sell more product with less work/handling.

I really have given this a LOT of thought and consideration and honestly believe that this is the best way to go.

The difference you observe between the AustPost and the ozpost modules is where AustPost attempted to solve the issue by parcel splitting based on dimensions, the ozpost module no longer even tries.

I can appreciate that the old method worked well for you, but several others were reporting problems because it expected one (or more) of the items in the cart to be able to be split. (eg, quoting for a brick and a feather resulting in two parcels, each containing half a brick and half a feather, rather than one parcel for the brick and another for the feather..

Sorry I don't have better news for you on this one, but hopefully I have somehow managed to convince you that the best solution isn't in the code (aka, The holy grail) but in the pre-sales packing. :yes:

If you wish to go it alone and revert back to what AustPost used something like the following should work: (Insert in code just before the dimensions get saved as session data)

if ( $parcellengh >= 105 ) {
$parcellengh = $parcellengh / 2 ;
$parcelwidth = $parcelwidth * 2 ;
}

Half the length, double the width.

Ideally after this, the parcel should be re-oriented again, because the new width may now be the 'length' and it could possibly exceed the 105 limit itself, and if so repeat again. I think AustPost performed 2 such recursions before ending up in a black hole, but a single test may suffice for your needs.

Cheers
Rod.

3 Jun 2010, 8:29 AM
#663
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Re: ozpost shipping module

Thanks Rod.

I do appreciate the complexities of this matter (we have also discussed it in the past with AusPost) and I don't want to drag it all out again. ;)

I'm aware of the pre-packaging benefits you mention but it can only be applied to a handful of items in my case. There are hundreds of different fittings that people will order in 1's, 2's, 3's... Some of the main ones maybe in 10 or 20. The 100x was for example purposes... there may be 100 'similarly' sized fittings in an order though, but to make it worse, these will be included with an item 500x200x100!!!

No easy solutions.

My head hurts with this stuff. ;) I realised earlier today that this path was trouble. I will look at the splitting as that might work out okay in many cases, however what I thought I could do for myself, as far as simple 'rules' go, would be to try something like the following.

If max dims < satchel dims
and cube < satchel max cube
and weight < satchel max weight
then offer satchel

(Customer chooses at own risk)

FYI, when I went to upgrade to latest AustPost I wasn't even expecting there to be any conditions on 'satchel' options other than weight. I was going to put the onus on the customer to choose wisely. They benefit from the lower satchel rates where reasonable instead of being charged parcel rates in ALL cases. So the addition of dimension checking was a bonus but also now a devil in disguise in my case. :)

Also considered default package sizes for 'small' items, i.e., items like fittings but realise the difficulties which your example illustrates so nicely ;)

"That looks wrong to me.
5 x 5 x 2.1 x 100 should come out as 5x5x210 (cm)

Hmmm, perhaps that's wrong too... how about...

50x50x2.1 (cm) or perhaps
50x5x210"

There is no easy answer.

Thanks again for your help and time Rod.

Cheers
Greig

3 Jun 2010, 8:52 AM
#664
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Re: ozpost shipping module

Oh, btw, satchel issues aside, I think the parcel dimensioning is creating issues.

RodG:

Although the 105cm apparent length will affect the cube (well, maybe, but that's another matter), the difference in the calculated cubes isn't going to affect the quotes, on account of the fact that the module doesn't actually use the cube data for anything other than the debug display. Only the weight and dimensions are passed to the server.

The Australia Post server must be quoting based on whatever is greater, Cube Weight (assuming calculated by Australia Post server based on submitted dims) or Actual Weight, as the quote for Express Post for the original example was around $115.00 instead of the more accurate $45-50. When I checked with the online postage calculator it seemed the quote was based on the cube weight of 12kg and not the actual 3-4kg.

This is why I am currently running both OzPost and AustPost as the customer can choose the lower of the quotes while I get this sorted out.

Cheers
Greig

3 Jun 2010, 9:12 AM
#665
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Re: ozpost shipping module

GAM:

There are hundreds of different fittings that people will order in 1's, 2's, 3's...

These aren't likely to cause any excessive dimension problems.

GAM:

Some of the main ones maybe in 10 or 20.

Even lots of 10-20 shouldn't cause any excessive dimension problems if the items are less than 5cm high.

GAM:

The 100x was for example purposes... there may be 100 'similarly' sized fittings in an order though,

Yes, there may be, but how often has this actually happened?

I do a fair bit of online shopping myself, but rarely to I ever place an order for more than a few items at a time. I used to, when I had my repair business, but that was also when I was buying in wholesale from a wholesaler - which is a whole new ballgame, at least as far as postage & delivery was concerned.

GAM:

but to make it worse, these will be included with an item 500x200x100!!!

No easy solutions.

There's actually lots of 'easy' solutions, but none of them work in all cases, all of the time.

GAM:

My head hurts with this stuff. ;)

Mine too ..... I even occasionally think I have the solution, until I think it through all scenarios.

GAM:

I realised earlier today that this path was trouble. I will look at the splitting as that might work out okay in many cases, however what I thought I could do for myself, as far as simple 'rules' go, would be to try something like the following.

If max dims < satchel dims
and cube < satchel max cube
and weight < satchel max weight
then offer satchel

(Customer chooses at own risk)

I don't know how well this will gel with the server, which has its own ideas as to what will fit into a satchel. If the server doesn't think it'll fit, based on weight & dimensions then it won't return a quote.
However, since this is essentially a fixed cost item it wouldn't be hard to re-add it locally. Sorry. No help with this one.

GAM:

FYI, when I went to upgrade to latest AustPost I wasn't even expecting there to be any conditions on 'satchel' options other than weight.

AustPost and ozpost have always used dimensions & weights.

GAM:

I was going to put the onus on the customer to choose wisely.

Customers won't do that, they'll choose cheaply.

GAM:

They benefit from the lower satchel rates where reasonable instead of being charged parcel rates in ALL cases. So the addition of dimension checking was a bonus but also now a devil in disguise in my case. :)

Sorry, but I've kinda forgotten what your problem was with satchels (I'm good at forgetting difficult questions and problems) <grin>.

GAM:

Also considered default package sizes for 'small' items, i.e., items like fittings but realise the difficulties which your example illustrates so nicely ;)

There isn't any way to set a default package size, only a default item size.

GAM:

"That looks wrong to me.
5 x 5 x 2.1 x 100 should come out as 5x5x210 (cm)

Hmmm, perhaps that's wrong too... how about...

50x50x2.1 (cm) or perhaps
50x5x210"

There is no easy answer.

I agree, and we are both so much smarter than any computer.

GAM:

Thanks again for your help and time Rod.

Cheers
Greig

My pleasure.

Cheers
Rod

3 Jun 2010, 9:44 AM
#666
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Re: ozpost shipping module

GAM:

Oh, btw, satchel issues aside, I think the parcel dimensioning is creating issues.

It can't do that. The sole purpose of dimensions is to prevent issues :-)

GAM:

The Australia Post server must be quoting based on whatever is greater, Cube Weight (assuming calculated by Australia Post server based on submitted dims) or Actual Weight,

This is correct - for parcels over 1kg.

GAM:

as the quote for Express Post for the original example was around $115.00 instead of the more accurate $45-50.

I'll not comment on which is the "more accurate" figure until I know what the input data is/was in both cases.

GAM:

When I checked with the online postage calculator it seemed the quote was based on the cube weight of 12kg and not the actual 3-4kg.

Are we still referring to the parcel that exceeded the maximum dimensions and was constrained to 105cm? If so, then the higher cubed rate will probably be correct if verified with the online postage calculator using the same dimensions.

GAM:

This is why I am currently running both OzPost and AustPost as the customer can choose the lower of the quotes while I get this sorted out.

Sorry if I appear to be a little confused, but I'm a little confused as to what you need to sort out, other than doing everyone a favour and creating bulk packs of items (where suitable) and then relying on 'normal human behavior' which 'limits' the number of items purchased in any given store at any one time to no more than a handful of products anyway, which aren't likely to exceed the practical limits. Also bearing in mind that no matter how good the code is to divide/split/limit there is still nothing to prevent someone from adding more and more different things that sooner or later you'd need several trucks to ship. (ok, an exagerration).

Seriously though, If you think that you have identified a problem that is likely to occur during the normal course of business I'm more than willing to see what, if anything, I can do about it - But if the problem is due to somewhat unrealistic scenarious (such as bulk sales where bulk packs are not offerered) or expecting someone to purchase 100 different items in one sitting then there really isn't anything more that I can do or say, other than agree that it could be a problem, but one we need to learn to live with.

Cheers
Rod

3 Jun 2010, 10:15 AM
#667
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Re: ozpost shipping module

Hi, I'm having a problem installing the ozpost module on a fresh install of ZC 139c.

My install is running on a Win32 Pro XP machine and I'm using MOWES HTTP server v2.2.3.

HTTP Server: Apache/2.2.11 (Win32) PHP/5.2.10
PHP Version: 5.2.10 (Zend: 2.2.0)
Database: MySQL 5.1.35-community
PHP Safe Mode: Off
CURL is not installed
ozpost_v2.0.6

I first did a WinMerge - I did find some minor changes to the in the ZC 139c files which I kept. Accessing the MODULE/SHIPPING through the admin panel, the Ozpost Module shows however, when I click on the INSTALL button, I get a dead page with error "The website cannot display the page". the URL displayed is
localhost/139c/admin/modules.php?set=shipping&module=ozpost&action=install

I then tried just a straight copy & paste of the ozpost package - still the same problem.

Any help appreciated
Thanks
OZ

3 Jun 2010, 12:18 PM
#668
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Re: ozpost shipping module

ozetrade:

I first did a WinMerge - I did find some minor changes to the in the ZC 139c files which I kept.

There are only 3 files that would possibly need merging (all located under /admin/), but unless you have other modules that also use these files you won't need to merge, simply replace the originals with the replacements.

ozetrade:

Accessing the MODULE/SHIPPING through the admin panel, the Ozpost Module shows however, when I click on the INSTALL button, I get a dead page with error "The website cannot display the page". the URL displayed is
localhost/139c/admin/modules.php?set=shipping&module=ozpost&action=install

Not much of a clue really.

Do the other shipping modules install/uninstall OK?

Can you increase the debugging level somehow so we can get some idea why the page couldn't be displayed? (file not found, bad permissions, bug in code, etc, etc.

ozetrade:

I then tried just a straight copy & paste of the ozpost package - still the same problem.

Oh shoot.... I just went to preview this post and have spotted your problem..

"CURL is not installed"

So, how did you manage to install zencart? (which complains loudly if cURL isn't available).

Cheers
Rod

3 Jun 2010, 12:23 PM
#669
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Re: ozpost shipping module

RodG:

...(which complains loudly if cURL isn't available)...

so if a "curl not installed error" appears and nobody is there to read it did it really happen?

i think the term loudly is directly proportional to the emphasis a user places on reading rather than winging it

3 Jun 2010, 12:40 PM
#670
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Re: ozpost shipping module

RodG:

Oh shoot.... I just went to preview this post and have spotted your problem..

"CURL is not installed"

So, how did you manage to install zencart? (which complains loudly if cURL isn't available).

Cheers
Rod

Hi Rod.

I had a feeling it might be CURL that was the issue. Yes, during the installation of ZCv139c there are loud warnings regarding the abscence of CURL. These warings do go on to say that some payment and shipping modules may not function without CURL.

I have not had an isssue with earlier versions of ZC as I've always built them on this type of platform i.e. minus CURL and I've always been able to install and configure modules - payment and shipping. I don't test full function until I upload to a host provider. I've just never aexperienced this type of install failure. I would guess it has to do with your full rewrite of the module.

Never mind. :smile: I'll upload to the host provider and check it.

Thanks
OZ

3 Jun 2010, 12:43 PM
#671
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Re: ozpost shipping module

ALiepinieks:

so if a "curl not installed error" appears and nobody is there to read it did it really happen?

i think the term loudly is directly proportional to the emphasis a user places on reading rather than winging it

I think you misunderstand. It is zencart v1.3.9 that 'complains loudly' if cURL isn't installed, so the theory is you must've jumped a few hoops to get IT installed before you could even get to the ozpost installation stage.

The ozpost module doesn't check to see if cURL is installed, but it does check that it is functional and can contact the quotation servers, and if it can't IT will loudly complain that the install can't continue.

I was figuring there wouldn't be a need to duplicate the check to see if cURL is installed or not, but apparently there probably is a need.

Cheers
Rod

3 Jun 2010, 12:56 PM
#672
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Re: ozpost shipping module

ozetrade:

I had a feeling it might be CURL that was the issue. Yes, during the installation of ZCv139c there are loud warnings regarding the abscence of CURL. These warings do go on to say that some payment and shipping modules may not function without CURL.

ozpost being one such module.

ozetrade:

I have not had an isssue with earlier versions of ZC as I've always built them on this type of platform i.e. minus CURL and I've always been able to install and configure modules - payment and shipping.

If you still wish to install without cURL you'll need to modify the ozpost.php code a little:

Somewhere around line 552 is a line that reads // version check / network check. Comment out the next 5 or six lines (down to and including the first/next closing brace "}".

Cheers
Rod

3 Jun 2010, 1:04 PM
#673
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Re: ozpost shipping module

RodG:

..........I was figuring there wouldn't be a need to duplicate the check to see if cURL is installed or not, but apparently there probably is a need....

Sadly, Rod, not everyone actually READS what pops up on the screen - until that message keeps reappearing over and over again. And even then the complaints keep flooding in .... we can't please all of the people all of the time :no:

3 Jun 2010, 9:22 PM
#674
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Re: ozpost shipping module

G'day Rod,

I am using ozpost with curl on version 1.38 and it usually works fine. But lately contact to the server seems to be going down quite often.

Do you suggest i do the upgrade to the latest ozpost version? Has there been some fixes in this area for better contact to oz post server?

Is there a link you can supply me that tells me the oz post server is down, somewhere i can check.

Love the module, best regards Sean

4 Jun 2010, 2:11 AM
#675
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Re: ozpost shipping module

sgallasch:

G'day Rod,

I am using ozpost with curl on version 1.38 and it usually works fine. But lately contact to the server seems to be going down quite often.

The log files don't indicate any problems so the problem may not be server side.

sgallasch:

Do you suggest i do the upgrade to the latest ozpost version?

Yes. always :-)

sgallasch:

Has there been some fixes in this area for better contact to oz post server?

No. If anything the latest version may even be worse, on account of the fact that I have reduced the timeout settings to 10seconds (down from 30secs).

Actually it shouldn't be any worse as a valid response should be obtained in a few microseconds - so even a 10 second timeout is magnitudes longer than it really needs to be.

sgallasch:

Is there a link you can supply me that tells me the oz post server is down, somewhere i can check.

Something like this ?

Also, the latest ozpost versions V2.x.x now has its own inbuilt server check that is activated whenever you go to the admin/shipping section of the site.
You'll not see anything out of the ordinary if everything is ok, but if there is a server or connectivity problem the module will provide a warning notice, hopefully with a few details as to what is amiss. If you are having consistant connection problems it will probablt be worth upgrading for this enhancement alone.

Cheers
Rod

4 Jun 2010, 3:54 AM
#676
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Re: ozpost shipping module

Hey everyone,
Server appears to be down at the moment. Is anyone else having the same problems as me?

4 Jun 2010, 4:18 AM
#677
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Re: ozpost shipping module

somedood:

Hey everyone,
Server appears to be down at the moment. Is anyone else having the same problems as me?

1.45 SA time - server is up. Logs show normal access.

4 Jun 2010, 5:08 AM
#678
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Re: ozpost shipping module

RodG:

1.45 SA time - server is up. Logs show normal access.

If the server is up, there's something else going wrong with the module. It's not working on any of my ZC installations all of a sudden.

4 Jun 2010, 5:15 AM
#679
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Re: ozpost shipping module

7thPo:

If the server is up, there's something else going wrong with the module. It's not working on any of my ZC installations all of a sudden.

What version of ozpost?
What version of zencart?
Can you provide a URL?

Any kind of clue would be useful.

Cheers
Rod

4 Jun 2010, 6:28 AM
#680
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Re: ozpost shipping module

How do I find out which version of ozpost I'm running?