Hoping to pick the brains of some old pros!

RodG:

Boy, did that set my billshot detecter off or what. Yeah, I can see you running to the moderators with all sorts of annoying complaints, no problem there, but to imply that the moderator(s) have already changed/edited any of my posts is just plain crop. Not that I get any special treatment from them. I don't. It is simply because they don't do that kind of thing without very good reason (usually privacy issues), and they always add text to the bottom of any postings they change that reads something like "Edited by moderator". It is the ethical/moral thing to do, and one thing I've learned about the moderators is that they are morally and ethically good people.

Maybe you should get your billshot detector serviced? Twice your posts have had to be edited in this thread.

RodG:

(usually privacy issues)

By golly you hit the nail on the head!

RodG, if you bother looking back you will find that two of your posts have required editing. If you go back far enough, you will find the explanation for why SE's got blocked on this thread (so this forum would not show up after wurldbitzer defibrillators get searched). After you finish running these 'experiments', is there any further reason to block SE's? I don't think so. But I still don't want my client to be tied to this conversation.

I value their privacy, deeply regret using the domain (because of your actions). But it's too late for that. All I can do is to hope you don't keep trying to get a reaction out of me by posting it without obfuscating.

RodG:

Yeah, I can see you running to the moderators with all sorts of annoying complaints

I have followed threads on hundreds of forums. In the last ten years, I have probably posted on 20 or 30 threads. Yet in my entire life, covering all experiences everywhere, I have only had to ask moderators for assistance twice. Both times in this thread.

If you think that's funny, you have a problem.

RodG, I may joke around because I'm an easy guy. But when it comes to business, I'm one serious MF'er. A few pages back you threatened to go on a mission to tie my client to this conversation. I let it slide. I'm done with that. If continue F'ing with me along this line, I will reach out and put my finger on you in real life.

¿Comprende pendejo?

This is simple. I am a man. A human. You seem to forget the words in posts come from real people. I have financial endeavors that I am involved in. Be snide. Be a twit. I don't care. Stay the F out of my real life or you WILL regret getting carried away with your imaginary persona. This human is not the same as the others you have encountered.

Last warning.

bn17311:

same here google.co.uk,

cscycles 2nd here

onyourbike ????

bn

I see onyourbike page 3 google. I was wondering if your .co.uk domain is a factor, not working as well as .com. Do you rank well in your area (UK/Ireland)?

But now Feznizzle is gone again, with sabianstore up top with the new description. I think google is in a state of flux.

BTW, Feznizzle's dynamic url entry - bizsite - is still live and top ranking with original "gibberish" description.

Perhaps it will end up best in order:

CEON
Dynamic URL
Ultimate SEO URL

I am not seeing fez's at all anymore, maybe it's a geolocation thing? Because sabian is 1 to 4 top results in my search on google.com, cscycles first one is #10 on page 1. This is changing the setting turn off personal results on the top right of the page and showing omitted links. If I leave omitted links out then cscycles is first showing on page 4.

Steve, the markup difference can be seen in such things like the product title on the product_info page. You can see all of that by viewing source. I have the title set as <H1>, if I included an <H2> or smaller tag as part of the title then the most weight is given to the words inside of the <H1> tag. For instance, I could have something like <H1>Wurldbitzer Debibulator</H1><H2>, Unique Kitchen Appliance</H2> as the title and Wurldbitzer Debibulator would be given more weight than the rest.

The same goes for the description, if I bold words then that is telling the SE this is more relevant/important than the non-bold words.

SPH:

But even if Zencart did come with the option to turn-on rewritten urls, the fighting would not end. We would then be arguing if the solution chosen is the BEST rewriter available. Example: Zencart choses something like Ultimate SEO. Others may still argue that something like CEON is really better. Or vise-versa.

No, No, No, and a thousand times no! What was that post where I urged everyone to read and understand before continuing with the rewrite or not rewrite debate?

I'll try one more time. If ZenCart were made to create 'friendly' URL's out of the box, there will be no need to rewrite anything!

SPH:

I don't visit prestashop forums alot but recall someone wanting a "better" url rewriter than what cart came with.

I have to assume that this is/was bad terminology. PrestaShop doesn't have a URL rewriter. It creates the 'keyword laden' URL's natively (It calls it SEO optimised URL's or something similar. It allows the users a lttle bit of flexibility as to the exact format they take).
To use a rewriter implies that this native URL is in a format that the user doesn't care for, and can't be configured for, so they'll use a tool, such as CEON (or the prestashop equivilent) to REWRITE what they don't care for (the 'friendly', but native URL's) into something they prefer, a 'freindy' rewritten URL.
I assume that this is what the forum person was seeking. Possibly because he or she isn't aware that the URL format can be customised with no rewriting required.

SPH:

And lo and behold: just today I received a Prestashop newsletter stating that in their very latest cart "URL's have been simplified for enhanced SEO".

Not a word, or even a hint of any rewriting going on. They are refering to the native URL's, that were already 'SEO freindly' (not my ideal choice of words). They've apparently simplified them, which I'm assuming means they made them easier for the users to configure for their own preferences. My preststa install is currently V1.5.2.1 (I think.. its on my other computer, not accessable from my current location)

SPH:

So apparently rewriters can be improved for SEO?

I guess so. Native URL's can also be 'improved for SEO'.

Lets use the red/grey car as an example. Nicoll purchases her grey fiesta. It was painted grey at the factory. This is the cars 'native' colour. She now wants to make her car go faster, so she takes it to a paint shop and has it painted red. She has 'rewritten' the color from grey to red. One needs to ask, why didn't she simply buy the native red fiesta from the factory in the first place? She would have saved the expense of the repaint and the factory red is probably a better paint job anyway. The rewrite/repaint is a needless (and costly) exersize.

This is the situation with ZenCart.. but in this case it only comes in one colour, grey. If you want a red ZenCart you need to repaint/rewrite this native colour.

Prestashop has several colours to choose from right out of the box, the user simply has to choose the colour they want.. No need to select the grey prestashop and then having it repainted red. However, if the prestashop owner wanted a grey car with red stripes, something that prestashop doesn't do natively, the only options are to select the grey prestashop and paint the red stripes onto it. This is probably why the 'better rewriter' was being asked for. Of course, it is also possible to get a grey car with red stripes by starting with a red car and painting everything except the 'stripes' with grey paint. Silly, but possible.

Point being, if you select/get the right color car (right URL format) out of the box/factory, then a rewrite/repaint simply isn't needed.

Does it make sense now? Can you now see why if ZenCart creates the URL's that people want, they'll be no need for CEON or any of the other paint shops.

Cheers
Rod

lankeeyankee:

I am not seeing fez's at all anymore, maybe it's a geolocation thing? Because sabian is 1 to 4 top results in my search on google.com, cscycles first one is #10 on page 1. This is changing the setting turn off personal results on the top right of the page and showing omitted links. If I leave omitted links out then cscycles is first showing on page 4.

I'm in California. Fez is up sometimes, and gone sometimes. Probably google is in flux with his sites?

I have the title set as <H1>, if I included an <H2> or smaller tag as part of the title then the most weight is given to the words inside of the <H1> tag. For instance, I could have something like <H1>Wurldbitzer Debibulator</H1><H2>, Unique Kitchen Appliance</H2> as the title and Wurldbitzer Debibulator would be given more weight than the rest.

The same goes for the description, if I bold words then that is telling the SE this is more relevant/important than the non-bold words.

Thanks!

I am wondering if this could somehow have browser cookies and/or cache involved? Maybe clearing the cache and google cookies would change this?

RodG:

I thought I'd answered this before. Probably not the exact same question, but the answer is still the same.
"Content" is whatever the server returns to Google as a result of a http[s] request, or, putting it another way, it is the same as what you'd see if/when you 'view source' of any given page.

I'm going on something our ex-SEO guy had us do. The sideboxes were useful, but he wanted additional products rotating on the product page in the main column where the product description and everything were. I guess he thought that the main column was more important than the sideboxes...in fact, I now think that he said that. Plus he wanted these rotating products to be from the same category. So I installed the cross sell plugin for that. And this is something our biggest competitors...and that promoutfitter site I recently posted about - do.

The idea was to add more and constantly "fresh/new" content, as the products rotated through.

I wonder if making 50 banners with a text paragraph or two for the footer 1,2,3 banners would add content and constantly freshen up the products. Or would google penalize too many banners as against customer experience? Why I'm thinking of footer - below the fold.

Not very likley. They've certainly recieved it (I got the standard auto-reply) but I'd expect it'll take up to a week or more ...

I was thinking more that someone at google manually made Fez go "poof." But now I keep seeing his sites, then I don't. Probably some flux.

Nonetheless, the Google algorythms are still 'aware' of them, and they are taking into consideration when deciding which of the top 1000 make the top 20.

Yes, I want to see if all of these anciallary links push the site's product to the top. I note that lankeeyankee's sabianstore also has a tone of these anciallary links, which may have helped.

But for some reason, my sites are not producing large nos. of ancillary links. If the test were to get the most links possible, it looks like dynamic urls win hands down.

Does it make sense now? Can you now see why if ZenCart creates the URL's that people want, they'll be no need for CEON or any of the other paint shops.

Yes, if they get the rewriter they want. My Prestashop contains what I think is a product or cat id no in its rewritten url, somewhat similar to zencart's Ultimate SEO URL. I'm assuming that this is what the latest Prestashop removed, perhaps making it more similar to CEON.

BTW, here's part of my Prestashop Newsletter received today announcing their latest 1.5.3 cart (bolding mine):

Some of the major changes you can expect in v1.5.3 are listed below. To view the full list of improvements, we invite you to check out the changelog.

• The new v1.5 mobile theme has been optimized
  - URL's have been simplified for enhanced SEO
• Improved shopping-cart functionality
• Customer login issues have been fixed
• Improved cookie management
• Streamlined price and stock administration
• Several native partner modules have been simplified
  and improved
• The one-click upgrade module has been reimagined and is
  now more stable than ever

For existing merchants, the one-click upgrade module is by far easiest way to take full advantage of the new version.

For clarity's sake, please stop referring to native "pretty links" as rewritten URLs. Just call them native pretty links or some such, since presta is in all likelihood not using a rewriter script but natively generating the pretty URLs. It creates confusion when they keep being referred to as rewritten links when they are not.

Feznizzle:

Maybe you should get your billshot detector serviced? Twice your posts have had to be edited in this thread.

Message refence please.

Feznizzle:

RodG, if you bother looking back you will find that two of your posts have required editing.

DrByte, I assume you are still monitoring this thread. Can you confirm if this is true or not?

Feznizzle:

If you go back far enough, you will find the explanation for why SE's got blocked on this thread (so this forum would not show up after wurldbitzer defibrillators get searched).

Nope, you can't even get that right. DrByte did this because if the SE's were able to crawl this thread during our testing the thread itself would have been indexed, and any/all of the URL's to the test sites would have been followed and they would have found their way into Google, effectively making all of our comparisons worthless and/or biased.

Feznizzle:

After you finish running these 'experiments', is there any further reason to block SE's? I don't think so.

I beg to differ, but if you want this thread to be made open to all, including the SE's just say the word, and I'll ensure it happens.

Feznizzle:

A few pages back you threatened to go on a mission to tie my client to this conversation.

I've never 'threatened to go on a mission' in my life.

Feznizzle:

If continue F'ing with me along this line, I will reach out and put my finger on you in real life.

¿Comprende pendejo?

Stay the F out of my real life or you WILL regret getting carried away with your imaginary persona. This human is not the same as the others you have encountered.

Last warning.

You have just made a huge mistake. This kind of threat will not be tolerated. Goodbye!

Rod.

lankeeyankee:

For clarity's sake, please stop referring to native "pretty links" as rewritten URLs. Just call them native pretty links or some such.

Will do. But I wasn't using "rewritten" in any technical sense. It was my version of "pretty links."

*[Moderator hat on]
*Guys, let's cool it with the personal attacks and stuff.

Stick to the topic at hand.

Nothing wrong with debating and sharing both personal opinions and personal experience, and of course your findings from your own research.
But when it starts getting personal and people taking offense or feeling the need to use harsher language to make a point, then things are going too far.

Let's keep this a friendly discussion that others can benefit from.

SPH:

The idea was to add more and constantly "fresh/new" content, as the products rotated through.

I've never tested, but my own anecdotal evidence indicates there is truth to this. 'Stale' sites seem to drop down the lists.

SPH:

I wonder if making 50 banners with a text paragraph or two for the footer 1,2,3 banners would add content and constantly freshen up the products. Or would google penalize too many banners as against customer experience? Why I'm thinking of footer - below the fold.
In my experience, even a simplest of changes on a page will keep it 'fresh'

Cheers
Rod

SPH:

Will do. But I wasn't using "rewritten" in any technical sense. It was my version of "pretty links."

I just wanted to help avoid people mis-reading/misunderstanding or thinking that you weren't "getting it" regarding native vs rewritten and the subsequent long diatribes.:smile:

lankeeyankee:

I just wanted to help avoid people mis-reading/misunderstanding or thinking that you weren't "getting it" regarding native vs rewritten and the subsequent long diatribes.:smile:

Thanks! I think this goes back to where Ihungil first jumped in re that no url rewrite tool currently in this test uses redirects. As I understand it, the zencart rewrite tools in this test generate "pretty urls" but "natively"?

Okay, more long diatribe.... :smile:

RodG,

Okay, I see your new product id no. 223 moving up. I independently went to your site, read your new bottom paragraphs. So what's the reason? The new paragraphs (content) themselves?

SPH:

I I think google is in a state of flux.

Nah, it's just that you are hitting a different server each time.

Google.com has about a dozen different published IP addresses, one of which will be selected at random by the browser/client on demand.
All dozen IP's are using 'anycast' technology, which will direct the browser/client to the google server the is geographically closest to the client.

In short, 1000's of different Google servers means they won't all have the same data at the same time.

Rod

SPH:

As I understand it, the zencart rewrite tools in this test generate "pretty urls" but "natively"?

Sorry, but no. rewrites and and "native" are mutually exclusive.

Rod

SPH:

RodG,
Okay, I see your new product id no. 223 moving up.

Just as I predicted. :)

SPH:

went to your site, read your new bottom paragraphs.

That was supposed to be a 'secret' between myself and those such as yourself, with enough interest in the topic to actually try to find an explanation for themselves. I guess I should have made that a little clearer in the text.

SPH:

So what's the reason? The new paragraphs (content) themselves?

As long as I don't forget (IOW, you may need to remind me) I'll PM you the reason in another day or 3.
If I provide the answer here you can bet your bottom dollar that someone will attempt to sabotage things.

I wish it didn't have to be this way. :(

Cheers
Rod

RodG:

Sorry, but no. rewrites and and "native" are mutually exclusive.

Rod

I think one has to be very specific. :wink:

How about this. The pretty url tools used in this test - CEON, ULTIMATE SEO, SIMPLE SEO - generate their urls natively.

Correct?

RodG:

Just as I predicted. :) That was supposed to be a 'secret' between myself and those such as yourself, with enough interest in the topic to actually try to find an explanation for themselves. I guess I should have made that a little clearer in the text.

Sorry, I guess I didn't realize there was a secret. But didn't you think that someone would notice and go to your site to take a look?