Simple SEO URL (OLD version) [support thread]

Does anybody know if this works for 1.3.9?

xplosiv:

Does anybody know if this works for 1.3.9?

Yes, it does*. It's on my seo url site here:

http://www.fashion-mart.biz/

But don't know if it will be upgraded for the new 1.5 zencart.

Found out other day that the Ultimate SEO has been upgraded to 1.5:

http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1112399&postcount=134

I'm going to test it on my 1.5 test site.

sph
https://www.prommart.com
https://www.fashion-mart.biz

*At one point I had a problem with the back button on pages such as Contact Us, Conditions, etc. Especially inconvenient if customer is on page 2 of checkout, goes to conditions, then cannot return via the pages' backbutton (not to be confused with browser's back button). But somehow it now works completely.

I would not go with Ultimate SEo, SSU WAS much better in many aspects other than that nobody will or can update it. If somebody tackles it I would be gladly pay if it had to become a paid mod.

As mentioned before, we need a SEO implementation that is going to be carried forward with every ZEN release. I just has to become core at one point. Like every other CMS and most Ecommerce systems these days. It is frustrating to hear over and over again that they are really not needed. Well, we user want it. Our customers like to see pretty url's, search engines seem to at least like them equally well too. There is so much in ZenCart but this one got to be in it. Sorry, had to vent a bit.

mydanilo:

I would not go with Ultimate SEo, SSU WAS much better in many aspects other than that nobody will or can update it. If somebody tackles it I would be gladly pay if it had to become a paid mod.

As mentioned before, we need a SEO implementation that is going to be carried forward with every ZEN release. I just has to become core at one point. Like every other CMS and most Ecommerce systems these days. It is frustrating to hear over and over again that they are really not needed. Well, we user want it. Our customers like to see pretty url's, search engines seem to at least like them equally well too. There is so much in ZenCart but this one got to be in it. Sorry, had to vent a bit.With modern browsers and search engines, SEO mods are more of a "want to have.. they are NO longer a "need to have". The part I highlighted in red from your vent is just not true:no:.. Modern search engines handle dynamic URLs JUST fine.. and there are PLENTY of stores that can PROVE that their search engine rankings have not been harmed by not having pretty URLs. Also for CMS and Ecommerce frameworks that do include these pretty URL features as part of the core, it's still a CONFIGURABLE option that does NOT have to be turned on.. (For example, you are NOT required to turn on pretty permalinks in WordPress)

DivaVocals:

With modern browsers and search engines, SEO mods are more of a "want to have.. they are NO longer a "need to have". The part I highlighted in red from your vent is just not true:no:.. Modern search engines handle dynamic URLs JUST fine.. and there are PLENTY of stores that can PROVE that their search engine rankings have not been harmed by not having pretty URLs. Also for CMS and Ecommerce frameworks that do include these pretty URL features as part of the core, it's still a CONFIGURABLE option that does NOT have to be turned on.. (For example, you are NOT required to turn on pretty permalinks in WordPress)

I do not doubt to what you are saying. I know they can handle the dynamic URLs, not my point. I claim that the pretty URLs are also handled well by the search engines. So not harm there to have them. They are plain just simpler and easier to understand by humans. That is what it is all about. Clear text URLs.

Example:
Sometimes I email a link to a customer to a certain page. Or post a link in a forum.

http://waxx.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=48

http://myx.com/floating-candles/blue-butterfly-floater-candle

Personally I would trust to click the 2nd link way more as I already have an idea what I will see when I get there. I know that is more a psychology issue. But shopping and clicking on links definitely falls in that category.

I am gladly take every possible step to make things easier for my customers. This issue with pretty URLs is a matter of tech people tell the marketing guys that it does not matter. Human behavior is the key issue here not computers.

The point to my post was and STILL is that pretty URLS are still a WANT TO HAVE feature.. You do not NEED to have pretty URLS in order for a site to be:

• easy to use
• effective
• found by search engines
• friendly
• usable, etc..
  (There are TONS of SUCCESSFUL sites out there which totally prove this to be true)

BTW, I want to be clear that I never said ANYTHING to the effect that pretty URLs are NOT "handled well by the search engines".. I did comment on the part of your original post where you erroneously stated (with regard to dynamic URLs) that "search engines seem to at least like them equally well too"

mydanilo:

I do not doubt to what you are saying. I know they can handle the dynamic URLs, not my point. I claim that the pretty URLs are also handled well by the search engines. So not harm there to have them. They are plain just simpler and easier to understand by humans. That is what it is all about. Clear text URLs.

Example:
Sometimes I email a link to a customer to a certain page. Or post a link in a forum.

http://waxx.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=48

http://myx.com/floating-candles/blue-butterfly-floater-candle
```Personally I would trust to click the 2nd link way more as I already have an idea what I will see when I get there. I know that is more a psychology issue. But shopping and clicking on links definitely falls in that category. 
> 
> I am gladly take every possible step to make things easier for my customers. This issue with pretty URLs is a matter of tech people tell the marketing guys that it does not matter. Human behavior is the key issue here not computers.

Correct, I want to have this feature. I want the choice to use it or not. Did not want to make a statement that there is a technological disadvantage. It is in my books pure human friendliness.

Many things in shopping experience are nice to have and hard to proof if they make a difference in sales. I happen to think that the pretty URL's is something I want to provide for my customers.

I thought SSU is going to be the one to be used and supported going forward. Yellow's main effort to create it was the lack of a good free solution and the lack of ongoing support for Ultimate SEO. Now for SSU we are left in the same boat. I have gone from Ultimate to SSU and now sincerely wish Zen would offer pretty URLs as a core feature to not run into the same situation over and over again.

mydanilo:

... and now sincerely wish Zen would offer pretty URLs as a core feature to not run into the same situation over and over again.

There is no compelling technical reason why the dev team should add this feature, for the same reason they have no obligation to offer other "nice to have" features.

In the latest version (1.5) there was a GOOD reason to incorporate a feature that was initially developed as an "add-on" (Admin Profiles), and while the feature in 1.5 is functionally different in some respects, the decision to incorporate it stemmed out of a practical necessity... making zencart PCI compliant.

But this whole prettying-up of URL's is still very contentious. In my opinion, it is used mostly by people who need a "crutch", and who are generally incapable of proper seo, or who have a sheep-like mentality and just follow the crowd. Most people add the URL feature because they HOPE it will raise their page rank. They think, "that's all I have to do..." and they sit back and cross their fingers...

All the while such modules remain contentious, and whose value is dubious, if not risky... there is no reason to even consider it - let alone actually incorporate it.

fairestcape:

But this whole prettying-up of URL's is still very contentious. In my opinion, it is used mostly by people who need a "crutch", and who are generally incapable of proper seo, or who have a sheep-like mentality and just follow the crowd. Most people add the URL feature because they HOPE it will raise their page rank. They think, "that's all I have to do..." and they sit back and cross their fingers...

Fairestcape, I think you're a little harsh here, even though what you say re seo ranking may be true. How many would turn on seo urls if it came with zencart, like with other free carts? If unwritten and rewritten urls work equally well, then there would be no compelling reason not to turn them on, either.

I think the main risk with seo urls and zencart is that since they are not built-in mods, imcompatibality with other mods or upgrades will always be a concern.

Even so, I just installed and turned on Ultimate SEO URLs on my second test 1.5 cart, worked again:

http://www.prom-mart.com/zencart-demo-2/

My main site (1.3.9h) uses dynamic urls. Sometimes I wish I had rewritten urls, as I cannot tell what my product is by looking at the url. That alone would cause me to use it, if it were totally reliable.

sph
https://www.prom-mart.com
My Ecommerce Cart Testing Area

fairestcape:

Most people add the URL feature because they HOPE it will raise their page rank. They think, "that's all I have to do..." and they sit back and cross their fingers...and of the few clients that I have installed a URL re-write add-on it is for this reason here.. These few clients could NOT be convinced otherwise, and it wasn't worth the time arguing the point.. So I did all the things that REALLY needed to happen for good SEO and used one of the more stable URL re-writing add-ons (not SSU) and moved on. By and large I do not include URL re-writers in my standard install because I KNOW that it's NOT required at all.. I know shoppers and search engines aren't having "issues" with dynamic URLs, so why "fix" something that ain't broken..

The length of this thread with all the hassles these mods create almost warrants its own forum. If this was such a "good" way of rendering a site, why do so many people end up wrecking their sites when using it.

Actually... I am ALL FOR SEO URL's (but only on everyone else's site)... in that way, OUR sites will have less competition on the search engines ... :clap:

schoolboy:

The length of this thread with all the hassles these mods create almost warrants its own forum. If this was such a "good" way of rendering a site, why do so many people end up wrecking their sites when using it.
Not ALL of these add-ons wreck sites.. SSU certainly does seem to do a fair bit of damage, and so does Ultimate SEO..

What is meant that seo urls may wreck sites? That it may cause a conflict with some mod and blow up the site, as one of my demo 1.5 sites did the other night? * Or is it meant that seo urls don't rank as well as dynamic urls?

I've heard time and again and kind of believe that dynamic urls rank well. This may be the first I've heard suggesting that re-written urls don't rank well. My experience is that would be incorrect. Rewritten urls plus good content can rank at least as high as unwritten urls plus good content, insofar as I've seen.

The ONLY problem with seo urls and zencart that I see is that since they are not built in, there is always the risk of conflict with something. I truly believe that if seo urls were a built-in zencart option to turn on or off in the admin and were stable, the majority of users would turn them on.

No reason not to, in that case.

I've been thinking, maybe there is a reason why the zencart team does not take some of the more popular mods and just incorporate them in to the default install (IH, for example). Many are template specific, and the team would have to write instructions for whatever template the user ends up with.

But seo urls (right now I'm more familiar with the new Ultimate SEO URL) don't seem to be template specific. I guess the zencart team has their reasons for not taking that mod or the basic CEON URI and making it part of the basic install. I cannot believe that "they don't work" can be the reason.

*I don't know if it was Ultimate SEO URL, the new free template I tried, or the failed Lightbox install (wouldn't accept sql), but site went kaput when tried to switch back to prior template:

https://www.prom-mart.com/zencart/

But it's Ultimate SEO URL seems to still be working....

sph
https://www.prom-mart.com
Ecommerce Cart Testing area

SPH:

**What is meant that seo urls may wreck sites? That it may cause a conflict with some mod and blow up the site, as one of my demo 1.5 sites did the other night?**I can't speak for others, but what you said here is what I meant by "they wreck sites". Also what I meant by they "wreck sites" is the fact that mods like SSU and Ultimate SEO offer no means to STOP using them without a fair bit of work to create proper re-directs from the static URLS they generate. (The Ceon URI mod is the only one that supports historical URIs)

I don't expect mods like SSU or Ultimate SEO or even Ceon URI to EVER become part of the Zen Cart core, and I think asking about it is a HUGE waste of time since it will likely never happen.

BUT...

getting back to the topic of this support thread it doesn't look like SSU has an active maintainer at this time and therefore anyone looking to use SSU with Zen Cart v1.5 has only three options:

1. Live with dynamic URLs
2. Invest in the services of an outside developer to update SSU for them
3. Find another add-on to replace SSU
   (I recommend Ceon URI as it is better supported, written and maintained than other add-ons like SSU -- sorry that's my opinion:smile:)

SPH:

How many would turn on seo urls if it came with zencart, like with other free carts? If unwritten and rewritten urls work equally well, then there would be no compelling reason not to turn them on, either.

I think the main risk with seo urls and zencart is that since they are not built-in mods, imcompatibality with other mods or upgrades will always be a concern.

Thank you! Exactly my point. If core, I would turn them on on all my sites because they are just simpler for the consumer. Even the newest Google Panda puts a lot more importance on user experience. User friendly sites will win. URL is just one small component in marketing your site easier. Not for the search engines but for sure for the site visitor. Posting clear text links in social media or blogs just makes sense in my books. But hey, if you don't all agree, that is perfectly ok.

I say it again, I would love to have a built in choice to turn it on. Is it a must have from technical point? No.
Is it a desirable feature of a modern cart for better user experience? Yes.

mydanilo:

Thank you! Exactly my point. If core, I would turn them on on all my sites because they are just simpler for the consumer.So consumer's are UNABLE to find content on a site if the URLs aren't pretty URLs?? that's what you are saying?? Based on what evidence??? (other than anecdotal evidence) Since there are MAJOR retailers who don't have pretty URLs, are you also saying that consumers are having a tough time with their sites???

mydanilo:

I say it again, I would love to have a built in choice to turn it on. Is it a must have from technical point? No.
Is it a desirable feature of a modern cart for better user experience? Yes.Except HOW does this improve user experience?? You still haven't said HOW..

In the 20+ years of developing webbased software I know from more than just pure anecdotal opinions that user experience has NOTHING to do with pretty URLs. If your site has lousy content or poor navigation, the user experience is shaped based on these aspects. User experience is NOT based on whether or not the URL was easy to remember. What users remember is that they could find what they needed to find because the search didn't work. Nearly every single time we look into why this is we discover that the search didn't work because the CONTENT wasn't there to be found.. Not ONCE in my 20+ years has usability been improved by pretty URLS alone.. Content and a user interface which does not interfere with user experience are stronger driving factors to improve user experience.

Mydanilo, this is probably best continued at this thread:

http://www.zen-cart.com/forum/showthread.php?t=194493&page=4

I posted a google link indicating that pretty urls improve customer experience...at least in google's view.

Diva, the only thing that really matters is whether GOOGLE thinks that pretty urls improve customer experience (whether or not our own data supports that). But probably best picked up on the other thread above which seems better for this debate.

sph
https://www.prommart.com

SPH:

**Diva, the only thing that really matters is whether GOOGLE thinks that pretty urls improve customer experience (whether or not our own data supports that). **But probably best picked up on the other thread above which seems better for this debate.Nope.. schoolboy said it on the other thread, what matters is this: IS THE SITE MAKING MONEY FOR THE OWNER?? It is if the owner has a good products, compelling content, is doing all the LEG WORK to market their site so that their customers know about it, and the user experience is one that does not interfere with the consumers ability to find what they are looking for and to purchase it.. On that note, this conversation SHOULD be continued on that other thread versus continuing this discussion here..

so like i said before.. :laugh:

getting back to the topic of this support thread

it doesn't look like SSU has an active maintainer at this time and therefore anyone looking to use SSU with Zen Cart v1.5 has only three options:

1. Live with dynamic URLs
2. Invest in the services of an outside developer to update SSU for them
3. Find another add-on to replace SSU
   (I recommend Ceon URI as it is better supported, written and maintained than other add-ons like SSU -- sorry that's my opinion:smile:)

SPH:

Diva, the only thing that really matters is whether GOOGLE thinks that pretty urls improve customer experience

You have lost track of reality... the only thing that matters is if the site is making money.

Google is now rivalling some the major monotheistic religions for blind and irrational faith in its sheep-like audience.

Savvy business people never put all their eggs into one basket - if anything, they look for baskets that are empty. Google's basket is so full now the effort to "get noticed" has become a futile paraniod obsession with the vast majority of website owners. So much so they have forgotten even the most simple of marketing principles...

Well, maybe one can make even more money doing all of those good things...plus pretty urls, if google likes pretty urls. Personally, I'd like pretty urls for one person: me. I miss seeing what my product is just by looking at the url.

But I do agree with you re google and eggs in one basket. In fact, one of my sister's main prom dress sites...a leader...was hit hard by google and I'm corresponding with them now, trying to remove tons of junk incoming links, many probably put up by her ex-seo person. Others put up by who knows who. A real mess.

My sis constantly tells me she does not like her biz being dependent upon a third party ... google/search engines...over which she has little or no control. Fortunately, she has a brick n mortar store helping her...I don't and am totally web dependent.

We really are tired of this whole seo thing and are interested in another alternative...leg work...but one that is web based. (Traditional Print media and even local radio, which she has used, are too local and we cannot afford a national ad.) So it would have to be web based. Maybe social media is the new thing. I'm not sure of her social media results, but not as good as her killer biz before Panda and when her seo person was actually spot on.

sph
https://www.prommart.com